I'm done game is terrible - honest feedback

This is a “I quit” post, the answer is yes you can have my stuff - as long as I have the game time left to give it to you. I’m on lone wolf

With that out the way, I want to give some candid feedback to Blizzard. I am one of those returning players who came back for classic 19 and hasn’t played retail in years. I came left again when classic ended and wrath launched and came back to try hardcore and play a bit of ERA, like many did.

You have truly messed up SoD. This is not the casual dad friendly experience that you made it out to be. This caters to hardcore retail players who (no offence) tend to have no life outside gaming as a lifestyle. This might sustain retail, but now that classic is over you will lose this other, more casual and imo, probably larger subscriber base if you don’t create content for them.

Pretty much everything you have done caters to the hardcore nolife playerbase. Ashenvale PvP event is PvE, best do this to farm rep? How is it a PvP event? Oh people can’t take part in the PvE bosses because your servers can’t handle this terrible event ? Take the event offline and rework it? Nah, just add a dozen more layers and make the world completely dead outside of ashenvale even at prime time - anecdotally, most players from ERA I know left at this point and so did I. This retail playerbase doesn’t care about this though, and you knew that, they just want to min/max as efficiently as possible.

Unlike most, I came back for P2 to a dead guild, an experience I’m sure many classic players share. P2 had even less content, one raid that was being used for parsing by retail raid loggers and was gatekept to hell by the frankly, terrible community this game mode has fostered. Another PvP event which was scuffed, all you had to do was make it a free for all in STV where kills reward coins with an option to opt out. But again, this silly retail design comes in and kills your servers. Solution? More layers, more dead world.

The runes are crap, unbalanced I can forgive given no PTR but they’re 95% copy pasted from later expansions. Outside of P1 the “quests” to obtain them feel thrown together last minute for the most part. Again, because your experience developing retail shows that retail players don’t really care about this either. That’s fine, but for classic players thats pretty lame.

P3 I don’t even know where to start. Incursions? The most boring content I’ve ever seen, fully mask off at this point catering 100% to retail players as a skip to the next max level bracket. Sunken temple being overtuned ? Again, you know your retail audience, you want a bit of buzz and a bit of hype nerf it a bit and let them raid log and parse it out.

Your game is infested with bots and RMT, because you’ve created a community of retail gamers who are used to swiping to obtain everything. In the absence of wow token, they obviously will use these services and as they treat the game like a job, spending irl currency to obtain money for boosts, portals, pre-BIS consumables, whatever, is not an issue. They do it in retail anyway. Whilst this was an issue in ERA too, never seen anything like what I see in SoD. Every second character is a bot out in the world.

This community you cater too is antisocial (in a mmo lol), unfriendly, toxic and no fun to be a part of. Why would any casual player bother with SoD when you create content knowing the community will gate keep it ? Never in my 20 years of wow have I seen people ask for raid logs to get into a pug. Never before in game have I have been told to “know the route” for content that has been out for less than 48 hours and literally involves running in a circle and never before have I been refused access to even join a GUILD because the class or spec you played is not “meta”.

It is highly unlikely anyone from blizzard reads this, but if you do. All you had to do to retain a more casual playerbase was add some actual content, new quest zones, new battlegrounds, fun events that don’t cater to sweats, perhaps a dungeon or two. You could have had normal raids and mythic, if you really wanted to cater to both parties. You have spent minimal effort on SoD because you know at the end of the day, all the retail playerbase really cares about are the raids.

That is fine, this game has survived on your dysfunctional relationship with that playerbase for years now and I’m sure it will for years to come. But the only real market you have for growth is the market of existing players, this game is two decades old. As your own graphs show, your subs trend down except when you cater to casual, classic players. Give the retail players what they want by all means, if they enjoy it and it’s profitable why wouldn’t you? But you will lose the classic playerbase if you continue to take this direction.

I intended to pick up the war within as my first retail expansion in years, if SoD kept my subbed that long. I certainly won’t now, and I won’t be back for P4. Do what you want, but this late in the game if you don’t cater to the playerbase you were lucky enough to get back with classic you WILL lose them.

Inb4 "get gud’ “classic Andy” “tldr” and “cry about it”

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Lol, you wasted a good portion of your life to write this nonsense. crazy

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you do realize that 97% of the players you encounter and who gatekeep you and who are toxic are casuals, right?

And you also realize that the classic player base is the one buying the gold. cause they are 35 years old with little time.

I don’t think spending 10 minutes writing this whilst on the can is something I’ll ever look back on and regret. If I hadn’t done it, I’d probably have looked at something else - but I appreciate the concern.

In regard to your second post, I think we probably have different definitions of what a casual is. If you’re doing things like posting your logs to a third party website, chances are you’re not a casual

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i really can’t tell if you’re just trolling or serious

I’m serious. SoD is not a game mode that caters to casuals whatsoever, why would a casual play SoD?

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This has to be a troll.

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Does it really matter if a level 22 is leaving the game?

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No he doesnt know this, because he doesnt understand the game.

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The problem with soft people is that they run from any sort of challenge. Its not season unicorn and lollipops. You’re world might be made of ice cream, but dont wish that on others.

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I think people need to stop spouting that they’re “casual dads” like it’s some badge of honor. It’s getting embarassing now.

Everything in SoD is being catered towards casuals. You can farm to max Warsong Gulch rep in under a month by just getting to Revered and then doing the daily. You can max Arathi Basin rep rapidly via STV tokens. There’s a 1000 daily rep quest for the new Emerald Wardens faction so even you can stay caught up with your 22.5 minutes to play a day between juggling your £500,000 a year job, wife, hot bit on the side girlfriend and 7 kids.

All 3 raids are piss easy - Sunken Temple is a cakewalk now. Oh no, wait, sorry, there’s maybe one extra mechanic in the fights now that require you to move your character out of them whilst pressing your 3 button rotation. Oops! Too hard!

This bygone era of everyone being casual is memory bias. SoD is incredibly casual - it’s the players who are doing any form of “gatekeeping” to keep people out of their raids who might screw it up and ruin their lockout for the week and I don’t blame them. It was the same in the later stages of Vanilla. It was the same in Classic. Why should people be forced to carry dead weight?

Online games will never be the version of casual you’re looking for ever again. Everything will be simmed. Min maxed. Gatekept.

You have two options:

  1. You find a guild that caters to what you’re looking for
    or
  2. You play single player games

Expecting Joe Random to take you in his PUG even though you’ve clearly not put in any effort in is the ultimate level of entitlement. “But casual dads”.

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I’m on the lw as well, gimmie gimmie!

It’s insane to me.

I have an analogy to make:

Like im not investing much time into reallife grinds, but i also don’t want to dine at the finest restaurants. I’m fine with cooking cheap meals, wearing the same clothes as 7 years ago, having 1 pair of shoes and so on because i don’t put much value into materialistic stuff.

But people in SoD just want to not invest any time but still dine at the finest restaurants on day 1.

Like us sweats even understand that the raid has to be nerfed. We are fine with the casuals dining at the finest restaurants but can we get at leasts one or 2 weeks of fun in return? And nerf bosses a bit later.
Watching the race was actually exciting for the first time in classic

Maybe a bit of a crazy analogy but idk.

And then you have the people who say content needs to be easy because it is in the spirit of classic. But you have the same people complaining about not getting enough loot so that everybody can be full bis. How is that in the spirit of classic?
How can people be so shameless hypocritical and blame all the toxicity on sweaty people.

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The speed of it is what is hacking people off I think. Looking back, it feels like the really old classic was far more casual friendly when it wasn’t.

It was far slower which made things seem far away and less of a worry, but now the game has sped up along with the rest of the world which is probably not what everyone really wants, but it has to evolve with the times as the so called, “casual” cannot put the brakes on their own lives in order to sync with a chilled out game.

To borrow from a real world analogy like you did. Original vanilla and even TBC to a degree was like cruising along on a summers day in a nice big car with your arm out of the window.

Now it is like speeding along through the pouring rain in a cramped hatchback full of screaming kids trying to navigate it through an obstacle course in under a set time while attempting to mentally take down a shopping list someone is barking at you over the hands free.

One gets you stressed, the other didn’t.

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This might be the only solution not sure, wow has a very split player base imo which don’t mix well together.

Some people turn cartoon games on to chill out relax and have fun, others invest their entire existence into these games and know everything about them, they probably know the games better than you know your own kid, not really sure how these two groups can co exist in one game and have everyone be happy

You made your choice by having a life and kid, to a lot of wow players wow is their life and child.

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To the OP, SOD is casual l, but just as any beginning of patch or new expansion some grinding is requerd in the 1st week to get you flow and than you can log when you want to progress.

join a raiding guild and half of your problems in sod will be solved or wait another months when they will make everything easy and join the 2nd wave of levelers.

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Its the classic players minmaxing the f out of this game, not retail players, its the classic andys checking nonsense stupid loggs for ez raids :rofl: retail players are mostly chill

The point people make with the “Casual dad” remark is that it typifies the player for whom is Blizzards largest growth market for this game. The “dad gamer” is someone who played back in the glory days and currently does not have the time to “no life” wow by playing for 3-4 hours + per day. They still hold a soft spot for wow due to it being the game of their youth, and so will play it casually so long as there are things for them to do.

Your description of this as a game made for casuals does not mesh with the reality of actually playing it as a casual. Even if the raids are “piss easy”, many casual players still find them difficult because they are not as good at the game as retail players, or simply don’t enjoy raiding. For those that do want to try them, the non casual playerbase puts barriers of entry in the way. Let’s take for example the casual player whom rolled a rogue in P2. What was his experience ? He tried to do the STV event, which has been made non casual by the very thing you state makes it casual, it’s the most efficient way to grind AB rep. So all the min max are finding ways to do this, blizzard enables this by making it available for 5 man groups and with the terrible altar system. I digress. The casual rogue looks for a group to farm coins for year, he cannot get a group because he is a rogue and the min max don’t want him. He has to log on at specific times to try and find a group, and ends up having to solo or join a stealth group where he dies over and over again to meta comps just to scrape out some coins. Is this fun content - not really. What can the rogue do, realistically ? Reroll to a more fotm class. If the casual player doesnt want to, tough.

So rogue decides he wants a group to gnomeragan. They won’t let him in as he is non meta. They ask for rogues but the rogue doesn’t have any. He could lie and say someone else’s log are his main. But this player has never used warcraft logs. He complains on the forum. They say “join a guild”. He looks for a guild, most don’t want him bevause he is not meta comps, or they also ask for logs. Rogue doesn’t have any of this. So what does the rogue do now in P2? The STV event is not fun even if it is most efficient Ab grind. He cannot raid. What does he do? He probably quits. In P3 it’s the same.

You state except random Joe to take you in his pugs without making any effort. ???. It is a video game, there is no effort involved. If the rogue in P2 has the gear has the runes etc to be viable but isn’t meta what effort does he have to make ? To reroll another class? Why would they do that? If there was other, actual content for casuals to do then perhaps the raid would not be an issue.

Part of the reason classic retained casuals is the same reason why vanilla did back in the day. There was more to do than raid. And when Naxx is out? Yeah maybe someone asks for the logs or you join a hardcore guild. But the casual can get his pre-BIS pretty easy and without too much stress. Can do PvP for blue gear on a chill basis. He can even run ZG, Only & MC and BWL without too much hassle with a casual guild.

This gatekeeping mentality did not exist in classic 19 nor back in the day to the extent it does now. Let’s be real. Look at for example P1, you had people wanting meta comps for deadmines , WC and SFK. On LF, many wanted meta comps for ragefire chasms.

Retail and hardcore players have a place in the came and blizzard caters HEAVILY to them. Absolutely not to the casual player. However if someone is a hardcore player and wants to play wow, they are already playing it. They will keep losing the casual players if they ignore them, that’s my point. You can dismiss this all you want but sod has absolutely bled players since launch and part of the reason for that is catering to this hardcore playerbase exclusively.

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This entire post is literally describing weaponised incompetence - except instead of against someone else, it’s self sabotage.

I play on Wild Growth, a server known for being quite sweaty. Our server got world first ST. I’d consider my guild a mid core guild and even we took 2 Rogues to ST the other night.

This whole “no guild wants us” BS is a fallacy. Some guilds don’t want you (which is their right) - there’s plenty of alternatives, you just don’t want to look for them. You can literally put in chat “LF casual guild” a few times at peak and someone will PM you.

As for gear, there’s a load of alternatives for each slot. My phase 3 BIS gloves are a green quest reward. I rocked 2 green quest rewards last phase.

And again, you have memory bias. This kind of thing did happen in Classic and Vanilla. Did you ever try joining a Molten Core raid on a Shadow Priest? A Balance Druid? Survival Hunter? Prot Paladin? Arcane Mage? Affliction Warlock?

Stop expecting people to cater towards and help you when you won’t even help yourself. You’re just whinging at this point and it’s boring.

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It is what you make it. I did a lot of PVP during the Ashenvale event in phase 1, and it was some of the best fun I’ve had in SoD. The event itself isn’t boring, playing it in the meta rep farm way is. I don’t know what it’s like now, but back then I’d often make raids explicitly to do PVP during the event and had a grand time.

Yup, and it took me less than 10 minutes to find another one which I’m quite happy in.

Join a guild.

The STV event was / is incredibly stupid, yes.

Not very good content in terms of enjoyment. But you don’t have to do them, you can go out and quest normally if you want.

Join a casual guild. There are plenty that accept any class and players of any skill.

This isn’t classic, not in any way. It’s a seasonal server with many changes to the world and gameplay. If you want classic you can play on era or Wrath servers.

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