i see it as a big group of friends all addicted to wow who hangs out. you can word it as u like, but wow is a game that only lives on hope and dreams, not whats here and now.
Hence me saying earlier that in regards of a new tier them being removed wouldnt matter as the new content gets tuned as such. Removing them from today to tomorrow would however for instance severely buff Sanctum Mythic and High M+ keys for instance given a 5-10% increased requirement in regards of your output is massive.
Correct.
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Hoping that a game becomes better and sticking together is not addiction, either.
I also do not accept the idea that this is in any way the players’ fault. Under no circumstances should the customer be made to blame for being scammed - and that is really what I consider this to be. €135 for 9.1 and the modern WoW customer service is a very cruel joke.
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true.
but we keep on playing a bad game, in hope for a better game. this is our fault. we need to send a message so they change… if they dont get negative feedback that actually hurt them they wont change, money speaks.
If they are passionate and talented, it is not the money that speaks. They will make their money simply because people want to play it. There is no need to worry. If game developers feel direct financial pressure there’s a very big problem.
They do not take the negative feedback to heart. That is essentially what has made me stop raiding.
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I think that when you have to take a choice, things like do 5 % more damage on pyroblast etc, are really bad, they fit well in a progression system, where you can get them all eventually, they are basically filler, like in artifacts for example, but if you have to choose between a good ability but bad in terms of output and a bad ability but good output, then there are problems.
Because at that point you have to sacrifice something to get something else, in the case of artifacts the sacrifice was only temporary, you would get some more artifact power and then get the ability, but in this case you are punished, you can choose to swap out conduits, but you cannot use them all.
This is one of the many reasons why i think artifacts overall were way better, and they should have just improved upon them after legion, and make them the progression system for wow, instead of getting borrowed power each expansion.
Account wide ap, and small improvements each patch and expansion, and it would have been perfect.
They didn’t even need to keep the weapons necessarily, they could have come up with any excuse, like you absorbed the power, or whatever, so there was no need to even lock a item slot anyway if they didn’t wanna keep the weapons themselves.
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indeed. The boosting is killing the fun for most of us.
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It has been already said that developers do not consider forums or reddit feedback as a realistic perception of the game by the playerbase as they consider these platforms as echo chambers that attract complainers and negativity.
There is also the fact that people who truly enjoy the game do not go to the forums to praise it, but simply just play it. People who don’t like it are more inclined to try to find an online platform to voice their problems with it in hope that developers will “hear it”.
Recently the lead Hearthstone designer explicitly said that designers are far more inclined to believe internal analytics that measure engagement than online feedback precisely because of the above reason.
Usually why do you come to the forums? You usually come to the forums to make a suggestion about something you do not personally like.
Does that mean that you should just disregard everything as negativity for negativity sake? If that is their line of thinking then i would say they are very short sighted.
Yea, the forums are generally gonna be negative, because that’s the damn purpose of it! You come here to make suggestions, if you make a suggestion it must mean that you at least do not enjoy something as much as you could! It’s literally logical.
im sorry about that. Its always sad when a active and enthusiastic player decide to leave (for a while o for good). I feel you.
I hope we all can meet again in the next exp with blizz llearning the lesson of the past…
They don’t disregard it, however, they take the negative feedback with a big grain of salt and they won’t do anything about it unless they see their internal metrics mirroring this feedback. That’s basically the gist of it.
This is a mistake.
As is clearly demonstrated by my example it is perfectly possible to have a very engaged playerbase who is not having any fun at all - and of course this is not sustainable. By trying to create an addictive but boring game, Blizzard are creating untold problems for their business, and sooner or later it will catch up with them. As of 9.1 it has.
As a game designer you must realise that the people making suggestions are not game designers, and you must be very aware of what your core design goals and pillars are when you decide which suggestions to include.
Unfortunately Blizzard has completely and utterly lost any sight of the design goals and vision of World of Warcraft, and as a result they have driven away those who like games like World of Warcraft.
It is as if something got lost in translation. When you talk to the vanilla or tBC devs they describe an entirely different set of goals than the modern developers do and are in general extremely resentful and angry with Blizzard, and this should be very concerning because, although the game is meant to develop and change, it is not meant to fundamentally change into something unrecognisable, but it has.
Now, I believe I promised myself not to talk too much about game design any more because I have by now realised that it is utterly pointless. Very few people here understand it, which is completely fine given that most of us aren’t game designers, but worse still is that Blizzard doesn’t, which makes this a fruitless endeavour.
Usually the cycle goes, first people go on the forums, and then later sometimes much later they quit.
But saying that only in games metrics actually matter is wrong. There are loads of good suggestions on the forums.
Problem is that you can’t because much like every class in the game, WoW itself is now designed on a patch-by-patch/expansion basis, as a builder and spender. If you don’t do the content while it’s current then it just gets removed, nerfed or disincentivized by removing all the rewards.
The only consistent “playing the game as a whole” content you can do are the raids which is once a week.
Mhm so u cant even clear hc, you dont play m+ and qq about not relevant content? Gg
you know? wow used to be not just dungeon running.
Found this post by accident but felt like I had to reply.
We are a Mythic (7/10 SoD) guild on Ravencrest EU (so alliance), and have been struggling hard to keep the raid going. Raid atmosphere is amazing, the people are very social and friendly, progress is going great and the performance good. So no issues there. Our solid guild management and social structure has kept our guild alive for 15 years.
However, outside of raiding the content is quickly getting bland to long time experienced players (PVE), and many aspects are regarded as not fun but a necessity (Korthia/Thorgast). This issue is costing us valuable people in our raids. Though I don’t think this issue is unique to just Shadowlands, it does seem like the playerbase is dwindling harder than ever before.
I feel like 9.1.5 will bring a short burst of activity back to the game (2 weeks of legion m+). Sadly even if it would release now it would feel like it is way too late. What is also concerning is that many of these easier fixes/changes in 9.1.5 should be added right away and not be used as a combined lure to lure people back to the game for more cash grabs. And when those people are milked they will probably introduce patch 9.2 at a much later date.
Currently we have expanded to leveling horde characters on another realm (raiding/recruitment is 95% Horde) and as another side thing next to raid logging have taken up Final Fantasy.
I could write a whole essay about the direction Blizzard has taken the game into and what could be better. But currently it just looks like our guild will go on standby for a considerable amount of time due to recruitment/inactivity issues.
TLDR; Guild recruitment/inactivity issues Alliance, Blizzard milking us and we’ve run out of milk.
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The vanilla and TBC devs goals were to essentially copy what Everquest did, add in WoW lore and make it easier, in all fairness.
Well, we are similar aren’t we.
Same race, same progress, same situation exactly.
Let’s form a club? What should we name it? I suggest pandas-frustrated-with-large-member-churn-at-7/10-progression-and-think-WoW-bad-but-people-friendly? 
Perhaps a little descriptive…
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We will likely get to 9/10M before the inactivity really hits us. Only had a night on Fatescribe so far and he’s not too bad.
In general people don’t enjoy the game outside of raiding at all, and there is an extreme amount of dissatisfaction and disappointment in the way Activision Blizzard manages WoW. Some people are sad and others are angry, which I think describes most topics on forums pretty well.
It’s not like it’s the first time WoW is in a spot like this, but it does feel like it has never been this bad yet.
People are enjoying FF14 at the moment, but even though that game is fun you can clearly see that the gameplay of WoW just feels smoother. Which makes the disappointment in Blizzard even larger.