RDF actually worked for some time, I had fun as a tank for half a year or so. I did not care for the “buff and bribe” system, as I called it. I tanked because it was fun. But slowly it was not fun any more, all the new, shiny DPSsers who were used to fast, fast and pulled like their life depended on doing the dungeon 2 seconds faster.
Said in another way … all the DPS overpulling - since they now could put out way more damage than before ICC patch - and then blaming the tank if / when they died.
ICC patch, not RDF alone, created a new mentality in the player base.
Patch 3.3.0 to 3.3.5 were the patches where everything was dumbed down and made easier:
all classes were getting more or less the same abilities,
all specs and talents were being streamlined,
all players suddenly were able to overpull and survive,
Questhelper was integrated into the map
just to mention a few.
I played back then, and I remember how we went from carefully pulling mobs one or two at a time to killing 8 or 10 at-level mobs dressed in low level Quest greens without problems.
People got used to either being able to handling it alone or inv. no matter whom to help you, no need to gear up, no need to prepare, no need in short to THINK!
And THIS - not LDF or dual spec or … you name it - ruined tanking.
The way of playing was changed with those patches, and this is the reason I’m so sad to see Wrath lassic built upon those.
Sorry an old copy/paste error from a Cata-or-not discussion , I should have written “Where the abilities of all classes became vastly overpovered compared to NPCs and mobs in the same level brackets.
And where cooldowns generally became shorter”
EDIT:
Would you please consider all I wrote, not only the error?
Why? We’ve already had this talk tons of times in various threads and you’re still wrong about tanks getting bribes in WotLK RDF. It’s not a thing in WotLK RDF.
And yes, later tiers make heroics even more boring. They do in TBCC too. The ilvl gap in WotLK is much bigger than it was in TBC too so it’s going to be stupid boring even faster.
Now you’re getting it, but it wasn’t the ICC patch alone. A lot of changes to retail going through the expansions have just amplified whatever min max mentality we have now. RDF is just a tool. I have a really hard time understanding people’s point of view on RDF cause I simply haven’t played retail in the state where RDF is anywhere near what they’re saying it is.
Which bearing does this have on Wrath? I am not into discussing anything but Wrath / Wrath Classic here; and as I just wrote in another thread my “Buff and bribe” from RDF is not the Cata loot bag but the buff for running with strangers and the badges being force fed to you where before you could choose to have them or not by not taking the Quest. (Luckily they did not take up bagspace )
I am all for freedom of choice and the requirement to think to play.
A 5% damage buff is always going to be worse than just running with an organized group. It’s really not something you’ll ever gun for. It’s utterly irrelevant to any discussion on the topic.
Yes, but you said that I talked Cata, and I supposed it was my “Buff and bribe” making you think so.
Now I copy pasted (and corrected) what I said originally, please start from there:
Okay, so your only change is that T10 geared people could stomp on heroics.
I meeeean…
So?
The ICC patch wasn’t what allowed you to do this, I dunno what was, but it deffo wasn’t the ICC patch.
Also, tanking for you. Tanking isn’t for everyone, nor should tanking be for everyone. If we went the route of “Im not taking a ret paladin to my heroic run he should go tank!” we’d have too many tanks for raids and those people wouldn’t be able to raid. The balance for any non-5 man content just isn’t the same as 5 man. Raids are what, 2 tanks, 5-6 healers and rest dps. 5 mans are 1:1:3.
read them:
CD reduced by …
Damage now … up from …
Ability increased.
Damage from … reduced
… now automated …
this is all you’ll see; it’s not one change it’s the sum of all these.
Yeah, I’m sure the CD on divine intervention going from 20 mins to 10 mins is what allowed you to suddenly pull more mobs in questing greens.
The changes you’re talking about was mostly to fix specs such as making unholy actually go for scourge strike rather than being casters, reduce the burst of rets, bring a few specs up to par for raids.
It didn’t do jack for “pulling more mobs in green quest gear” and you’re deluded if you think that was the intent or the effect of it.
I won’t speak of the intents, not a mindreader here, but the effects were as I described them here.
If you can’t see the words I cited jumping out at you for every class, for every spec, an for every pet, I think you need a pair of new glasses. And for pete’s sake stop talking RAIDS we’re discussing Random DUNGEON Finder here.
Okay, since I can’t include links to the patch 3.3.0 notes cause the forums are all sorts of awful, I’m just going to assume you played a hunter at the time (cause that’s your profile atm) - if you played another class that changed so radically during 3.3.0 I’ll happily do the same for that class.
Hunters
[[Call Stabled Pet]]: Cooldown reduced from 30 minutes to 5 minutes. Cannot be used in Arenas.
[[Deterrence]]: Now also increases the chance for ranged attacks to miss the hunter by 100% while under its effect.
[[Misdirection]]: Redesigned. Instead of having finite charges, it now begins a 4-second timer when the hunter using Misdirection performs a threat-generating attack, during which all threat generated by the hunter goes to the friendly target. In addition, multiple hunters can now misdirect threat to the same friendly target simultaneously.
Talents
Beast Mastery
[[Intimidation]]: If the hunter’s pet is in melee range of its target, the stun from Intimidation will now be applied immediately instead of on the pet’s next swing or attack.
Pets
[Avoidance]: This talent has been replaced by [[Culling the Herd]]. Hunter pets now innately take 90% less damage from area-of-effect abilities like all other class pets. This does not apply to area-of-effect damage caused by other players.
[[Cower]]: Redesigned. This ability no longer affects threat, and instead reduces damage taken by the pet by 40% for 6 seconds with a 45-second cooldown. While cowering, the pet’s movement speed is 50% of normal speed. Cower now only has a single rank and is available at pet level 20.
[[Culling the Herd]]: This pet talent has replaced the Avoidance talent in the pet trees (Hunter pets now gain that benefit automatically without expenditure of talent points). Culling the Herd increases pet and hunter damage by 1/2/3% for 10 seconds each time the pet deals a critical strike with Claw, Bite, or Smack.
[[Demoralizing Screech]]: The attack power reduction from this ability has been increased by 40%, equaling the maximum possible attack power reduction from the abilities of other classes.
[[Improved Cower]]: Redesigned. This talent now reduces the movement penalty of Cower by 50%/100%.
Pet Leveling: Hunter pets now need only 5% of the experience a player needs to level, down from 10%.
[[Venom Web Spray]]: Range increased from 20 yards to 30 yards.
[[Web]]: Range increased from 20 yards to 30 yards.
[[Wolverine Bite]]: This talent is now enabled when the pet lands a critical strike rather than from the target dodging the pet’s attacks. In addition, this talent no longer has a prerequisite.
Hunters
[[Concussive Barrage]]: This ability is no longer subject to spell reflects.
[[Explosive Trap]]: The damage from this trap will now scale properly with the hunter’s attack power.
[[Glyph of Immolation Trap]]: Now properly increases damage by 100%. In addition, this glyph will now modify the tooltip of [[Immolation Trap]]correctly.
[Glyph of Mending]: This glyph will now modify the amount healed in the tooltip on Mend Pet.
[[Point of No Escape]]: It is no longer possible to gain benefit from this talent multiple times by having a target affected by multiple of the same hunter’s traps. In addition, Freezing Arrow will no longer incorrectly provide a critical strike bonus to players beyond the hunter with this talent.
[[Roar of Sacrifice]]: Corrected tooltip error.
[[Silencing Shot]]: Updated tooltip to include the functionality that this ability also interrupts spellcasting on NPCs.
[[Volley]]: The tooltip for this ability will now update properly from haste.
Please be specific, which of those changes changed your playstyle from pulling 1 mob at a time to 9-10? I guarantee nothing short of a completely new class would change your playstyle that radically.
And I kinda have to talk about raiding when you’re complaining that changes made specifically for raiding changed your questing experience which is somehow related to RDF.
I actually played a meme-specced Pally then, mostly Prot, and she did as I say here, went from pulling 1-2 mobs to freeing Metzen in mismatched armour. I have a screenie I took because I was so surprised - of her sitting, surviving, eating and drinking in Tanaris with the bodies of 8 pirates lying around her.
Yeah, I think that’s a you change more than anything. You’ve been able to do huge pulls as a protadin in all of WotLK. There were literally 0 protadin specific changes in 3.3.0 that would have an effect while soloing, other than not being able to see multiple icons of the same buff (just icons, not their effects).
Divine Guardian was revamped but that’s a long cooldown and fairly raid specific. Nothing else changed in 3.3.0 for prots.
Hm yes, and memories are notoriously untrustworthy. This pally I remebered never even freed Metzen
Must’ve been my Hunter then, I played many different classes and races – I’m an altoholic. and Winter Veil 2009 is avful long ago. Many of my characters from back then are on another account and not in the Armoury because I have not played them since early BfA, so I cant see, and I’m not going to look through 1000 of screenies to find the rigth one
, I should have written “Where the abilities of all classes became vastly overpovered compared to NPCs and mobs in the same level brackets.