Imagine if open world PvP was only about skill regardless of your level

I’ve always got the PvP mode enabled, but on lower levels it’s just an easy mode for leveling. It doesn’t encourage you to engage in PvP with higher levels and pretty much the only type of PvP you will come by while leveling is a level 70 killing level 60s at the Wingrest Embassy. The level 60s cannot realistically, mathematically, however good they may be in PvP, fight back.

I think the whole PvP aspect of it would be much more alive if your level simply didn’t matter. I don’t know what would be the best way to implement that, but to me that would be a decent PvP mode.


Skill is irrelevant in world pvp. Doesn’t matter how good you are if 2 raids are standing there camping a spawn point or flight path etc.


Nah, Open World PvP is all about survival of the fittest. It should really be were your ability to gear/level up really shines. It’s instances PvP (arenas and BGs) that should have an option or queue for template play.

Template, as in you set your stats from a ready given pool.

No point getting butthurt because someone else has a bigger stick and ganked you. You have the entire environment to try and work with. Guards? Mobs? Even a cliff can 100-0 stronger opponent if you knock them off. There’s your skill expression despite level/gear disadvantages.

If anything, we need more reasons to WPvP. More PvPvE objectives and incentives to actually engage and attack the opposing side. Capturing locations to get buffs or access to cool cosmetics or whatever.

1 Like

It’s impossible to balance pve and pvp simultaneously.

One game mode is doomed to suffer for it.

It’s not survival of the fittest if a level 70 is hunting level 60s, because there is mathematically nothing they can do. It’s a non-PvP situation.

I think you missed my point, because that’s what I’m proposing - a more engaging world PvP. Unless you want to be rewarded for one-shotting a low level.

World PvP is and always has been all about miserable people looking to ruin the fun of players who can’t fight back even if they tried. There’s nothing more to it than that despite a bunch of avid world “PvPers” saying otherwise, as if they don’t turn to killing quest givers and flight masters instead the moment they can’t farm the low levels anymore because someone who can actually fight back has showed up to protect them.

And saying that world PvP is “where your ability to gear/level up really shines” is like saying that acquiring food is where your ability to get up and walk to the store shines.

World “PvP” is the in-game equivalent of going outside with the sole intention to squash ants while trying to convince others that you’re actually doing biological research.


Precisely. It’s not PVP, it’s ganking. PVP happens between to reasonably equal opponents willing to go at it. Chasing down a guy who does not want to fight you is as much pvp as killing a guy 10-20-30 levels below you.


I started on a PvP realm back in TBC and open world PvP has never been fair. The other person is either an over powered class, several levels higher than you, with a group of others, or sneaking about being an opportunist.

Being spawn camped was particularly delightful when you’re trying to level, by someone who is higher than you and it just means dying your way across the map to get to base/your destination. Eventually this completely legitimate practice is what lead me to move to a Normal realm and is also the reason I don’t use WM on unless I have to for things like greater AP gain.


Mate, you do know “survival of the fittest” encapsulates stuff like lions going after the weakest of the herd, or seagulls snatching up freshly hatched sea turtles.

Level difference very much is survival of the fittest. If you are not fit enough to avoid the hunter, then that’s your own fault. You chose to have War Mode on. You knew the risks. Don’t cry when there are consequences for your own choices. You gambled, spud! :smiley:

WPvP as it is is engaging as its an arms race with environmental considerations to take into account. Since its a PvPvE environment, the only addition a that is needed are worldly objectives.

For now, though, it’s really on you to get good, mate. War Mode has its risks. It has its requirements. You know that. If you don’t like that game then don’t play it?

The guy you’re chasing may not want to fight as much as they want, but they also turned on War Mode for those sweet sweet reward gains. The payment is either fighting or figuring out how to escape.

That sounds like a fairly miserable mindset to have, and it screams a bias that you are just generally butthurt.

WPvP has always happened when someone chooses to join a PvP realm, turn PvP on, or join War Mode. What is with players assuming they can turn these modes on without risk? Should the rewards just be free? If you don’t want to risk being out-leveled or out-geared then maybe don’t turn the mode on.

I could easily say that there is nothing more to WPvP whingers than a bunch of entitled “War” mode users that just want free rewards.

Again, WPvP is an arms race. If you don’t have the gear or levels, then learn to avoid fights. Stop being an ant that gets easily squashed. Or maybe just leave the mode well enough alone if you don’t like it? :slight_smile:

Absolutely, yeah. But when one guy is running, it’s not pvp.

I don’t think you understand what I’m saying. The environmental considerations do not matter when one can oneshot you with something as simple as arcane shot. There is no “get good” aspect of it.

I think you have mistaken my post for a level 70 vs a level 70 with better gear, which is not what this is about.

That’s WPvP. Running is part of it. You have the full environment around you to deal with the threat. A mouse that hides in a burrow that the big cat can’t reach will survive.

You can try and aggro mobs onto the target, or nearby guards if there are any. What about disengage tools like stealth, feign death, etc? Drop and then mount up if you have the distance. You could also make distance with stuff like waterwalking or faster swim speeds. Maybe even knock them off a nearby cliff. It makes space or even kills them!

Avoid the area then. They did introduce a bit of scaling in open world so targets weren’t one-tapped, so if you are playing with War Mode on with such a level disparity that you are still getting oneshot, then maybe turn it off? If you’re not prepared to Dark Souls your way through the area to level then just play in PvE mode for a while.

Its never going to be about skill. Warlock dots me up and I Alter time. Warlock dots me up again and I Ice Block. Warlock dots me up again. I try to burst him and he shields himself up. I die. No matter what.

If im against melees I CC and burn them to death. That’s as close as the balance goes.

Now do that with Shadow Priest. No you won’t. You die in both cases.

Of course I’m butthurt when I’m just trying to mind my own business in a game but some miserable douchebag 50 levels above me decides he won’t let me do that for the next hour.

Before war mode a lot of player first started playing on PvP realms without knowing what they’re really signing up for because it wasn’t really explained anywhere very well. One doesn’t exactly see “PvP” and imagine being ganked by max levels for hours on end, or being unable to turn in quests or use flight paths. And when something like that first happens to them after they’re already X levels in, it’s not exactly fair to ask them to go start over on a non-PvP realm.

Not to mention even with warmode off you can still get flagged for PvP if you just fly too close to an enemy faction camp. That just happened to me recently while doing the Eastern Kingdoms Cup dragon races, and some of them were near an Alliance base, which a bunch of people used to their advantage and attacked anyone who accidentally got flagged by flying over it. So don’t pretend like you’ll be left alone if you just opt out. People who are into WPvP are in it to be annoying little pricks and will jump at every opportunity to be just that.

War mode shouldn’t have any sort of bonuses to it to begin with anyway. And despite that it does, I still don’t even turn it on, ever. That doesn’t mean that WPvP griefers won’t try to find ways to annoy me regardless, often successfully, because that’s all they can do to people in their miserably lives.

Yeah, avoid fights with someone who actively seeks you out, can one shot you and will chase you down anyway because they have faster mounts, or kill your quest NPCs. Great tip, thanks. Just stop pretending it’s some kind of legitimate activity and admit that you just want to feel power over someone with little to no resistance that you desperately crave to have in the real world where you can’t achieve anything. If you wanted actual PvP to challenge other people you’d go play arenas or BGs. WPvP is, has been, and always will be all about power tripping and annoying other players for the sake of being annoying.


This is the issue with Warmode. It shouldn’t have any PvE incentives to lure people in. It should be about PvP for those who love THAT aspect of the game.

And making it a more fair feature as you suggested is a good idea then.
But it should not have more XP and whatnot.


You chose to turn on War Mode. You decided to allow that interaction to happen, so really you weren’t “minding your own business” because you had a massive “I signed up for WPvP” sign above your head.

If you don’t want to be ganked for an hour, then either you need to try a new tact or leave War Mode if you can’t deal with the situation.

It’s player vs player. PvP wasn’t new with WoW. It’s not the hardest concept to grasp that a realm/server had open player conflict when it was labelled “PvP Realm”. It’s pretty obvious to most people that there’ll be danger.

It’s been years since the start of WoW. You have even less excuse for being surprised by gear/level disadvantaged ganks with War Mode now.

Mate, you’ll be left alone if you’re not an idiot and keep away from enemy faction encampments. The fact that you got flagged has nothing to do with WPvP and was 100% your own fault. Are you the same guy who complains that he got zapped because he went out of his way to stick his tongue in the fly-zapper?

WPvP is great for a more dynamic and unique form of PvP that arenas and BGs don’t provide. You can easily get dumpstered in instanced PvP situations if you lack the gear. There was the whole “twink” movement because you’d have a level advantage over others in your bracket. Are you going to call all PvP players “annoying little pricks” then, or are you going to stop tarring everyone with the same brush? :slight_smile:

You’re paranoid now. If you don’t have War Mode on, then you won’t interact with those players. They are not scratching at the walls to get to you.

Jeez, have you ever played Dark Souls? You come across as the kind of guy that would throw down their controller because the boss didn’t just keel over after the first strike. If difficulty isn’t your cup of tea, then don’t go near that gamemode.

Avoiding fights you can’t win is part of War Mode. Either you snear around undetected or you use what you can to keep the attacker away from you. If he’s camping you, use the moments before death to turn in quests. Bide your time and patiently wait for your opportunities. If you don’t like that, again, then don’t go near that gamemode.

You seem to have an awful fixation that everyone that WPvPs is out for a power trip. Most of us like the “realism” of open-world faction warfare. It’s immersive. I play War Mode because I like the risk. I like the idea of trying to survive. If I get ganked while leveling, I know that I either need to knuckle down and think, or just leave the mode if I want to take the coward’s way out.

It doesn’t seem to be the gamemode for you, though, so I’d say just leave it be.

A level 60 will get oneshot by a level 70 in the Dragon Isles, so the scaling doesn’t really work there.

However, the problem with the War Mode is not the PvP, but the lack of it. I don’t even have it on for the benefits of PvE, but for the hope of running into a fun PvP situation. The problem is that it encourages you to avoid PvP rather than engage in PvP, because it’s not mathematically possible to PvP higher levels.

Your Dark Souls reference doesn’t really work, because Dark Souls gives you a way to fight the monsters regardless if your gear - if you are skilled enough to avoid getting hit - but a level difference in WoW is equivalent to a level 1 trying to solo a raid. It’s not a “hard mode” by any means. There is no game in it.

All I read here is people switching ON a mode that they are not ready to handle. For all of this, most of us should be happy that WM exist, it allow a more active player base in world & give the healthy way out if you don’t want to be annoyed while doing something by being a switch ON/OFF button.

You want the rewards linked to it, accept the possible consequences. Otherwise, just switch it off, it’s not like the xp % given is crazy nor the money gain.

The reference to server type is out of the question, WM define if you want a PVE like environment or you want a PVP one.

1 Like