That Sylvanas actions are logical and pragmatic even if pretty “evil”. They benefit whole horde. She has support of people, builds alliances with zandalari and nightborns, doesn’t opress non-undead races like garrosh did with orcs
And horde loses war only because of traitors like Saurfang and Baine (who he is still going to save).
Like, she’s a bad person, but great warchief.
Nothing she did yet convinced me she is good Warchief let alone “great”. I haven’t felt like yelling “for the Horde” since Wotlk. I was hoping that Horde’s spirit will return with Vol’Jin at charge but naaah!
Apparently we don’t need level headed leader that isn’t Alliance sympathizer yet is avoiding needless bloodshed, and we deffinietly don’t need a leader that actually cares for Horde well being and not some shady personal ambitions.
We need someone who is super edgy and over the top with voice acting, constantly makes questionable decisions and has a record for sending Horde troops for sure death and showing complete disregard to the lost life.
We have a saying here adapted from great book trilogy " End this, sir. Spare the shame". And this is how I feel about Horde nowadays.
Yes, Thrall should allow himself to be assassinated.
Killing her own soildiers is the way of THE TRUE WARCHIEF!
Can I have the stuff which you have smoked too?
Zandalari are sceptical and I think that’s the reason why they aren’t a part of the Horde. Nightborne will be against her later anyway.
But have struggle with many leaders, don’t care about the opinion of others and decided l everything by herself.
Yeah, otherwise the Horde would win the war. 100%!
No, Sylvanas Fanboy, she isn’t.
zandalari existed for millenias - to be reduced to a subfaction who is known now from unstability would be a massive downgrade for them. They stagnated a bit but honestly they don’t really need much to catch up unlike NB. And all they need is assistance of Darkspears. As elves disregard their orders and goblins steal from then when they aren’t looking. As independent nation they can do much more.
Praise Talanji for her very concious decision that is also very true to her father believes.
Like when she burned Teldrassil, throwing away the Horde’s only chance at peace, throwing them into the war she swore to prevent, and is now losing.
LIke when she failed to defend the Undercity, which was attacked because she burned Teldrassil.
Or the time she invaded Kul Tiras after they had rejected the Alliance’s proposal, failing to conquer it, pushing Kul Tiras into the Alliance and losing many Horde soliders in the process.
What about her torture of Derek Proudmoore and the subsequent imprisonment of Baine Bloodhoof, a move that nearly every Horde leader disliked, which in 8.2 leads to a civil war, all of which could have been prevented had she not tortured Derek, or not imprisoned the sovereign leader of the tauren.
What about the Horde’s defeat at Dazar’alor, which she did nothing meaningful about.
Or when she sends the entire Horde fleet to its doom in 8.2 because a magical dagger told her to, rather than make a good strategy to take down the Alliance fleet, keeping her own casualties low.
What benefits to the Horde will he discover?
Baine, Rokhan and Lor’themar did this. SHe sat on her rotten a** in Orgrimmar.
Like, killing them with blight outside Lordaeron.
No, the Horde is losing the war because Sylvanas failed to secure the Abyssal Scepter.
How? She has failed to win the war she started, failed to secure the peace she promised and failed to keep the Horde united. What good does she do for the Horde?
Yea, tell that to killed forsaken civilians on the Arathi Highlands.
o boy, this again.
… in theory. in a world where control of azerite is obtained purely by controlling mainland kalimdor and the factions are so closely matched that azerite would prove to be a decisive advantage, then sure, sylvanas’ ruthless warmongering makes sense.
that’s not the world she lives in, though.
in-universe the horde’s last military success was teldrassil. the destruction of undercity wasn’t an alliance success, since it met none of anduin’s stated goals and left silverpine a blighted wasteland, however it wasn’t a success for sylvanas either. she destroyed undercity thinking she could take the alliance leadership down with it, but they escaped, leaving her with one less capital and no net benefit.
since then it’s been a string of defeats for the horde, culminating in the sinking of the zandalari fleet, the ransacking of dazar’alor, and the murder of king rastakhan. not only that, but her ruthlessness in dealing with alliance civilians has fomented an uprising against her within her own faction, giving the alliance yet another thread to pull at if they want to weaken her.
on the whole the “ruthless warmonger” schtick hasn’t worked out too well for her. all the “for the horde!” propaganda might help keep the citizenry onside, but IRL history tells us that’ll only last until the effects of sylvanas’ warmongering start to creep into the daily life of horde citizens.
tl;dr - at best sylvanas is reckless and foolish. at worst she’s a (badly written) psycopath. and is probably possessed by varimarthas.
EDIT: also the only way back i can see for sylvanas is if blizz spring a gotcha reveal on us at some point before 9.0. “hey look guys, she wasn’t evil at all - she was the only one who could see the big picture of old gods and void and light all being evil!!!11” if they do that i’m out 'til classic.
Reminder that this prediction exists:
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/516649456582656014/579647172631461898/The_end_of_BfA.jpg
Unknown artist.
Peace is impossible and if war would start after azerite was researched enough - it would end both factions. Read novel, it’s explained well
if you mean undercity, she actulyl evucated. And the people that got killed by blight are ones that say themselfs that they ignored orders to retreats and wouldve otherwise made it to safety.
And at meeting with anduin, that wouldve never happend if indeed wasnt idiot that brought calia there in open.
Imagine constantly making threads complaining about the new cinematic and Thrall teaming up with the Horde rebellion.
Thrall is a simple coward involved himself in the leadership of Horde without him having the guts to take it. He did betray the ONE and only Garrosh and my guess is he gonna betray the mighty Queen as well. So Trall and Saurfang are alliance lapdogs. Lets send them to their ally friends id say.
Same thing Illidan did,but you realized 10 years after why he did it. So wash your mouth please xD
She has the support of the people? Builds alliances? I think at this point it’s literally just the Forsaken and probably the Maghar.
Then why did she claim she could ensure peace by claiming Teldrassil? Did she lie to the Horde to bring them on a campaign she knew would fail? Then you jsut admitted she is doing a bad job.
Strange. We are currently fighting that war, and both factions are still standing. The greatest feat of Azerite has so far been in the area of breaking down a sea-gate. Face it, Azerite is not particularily more powerful than any of the other magical minerals we have already uncovered.
Which novel? I have read them all. Nothing about my post implied otherwise. It is not “explained well” anywhere. It is asserted very well. Sylvanas asserts that war is inevitable, while not even thinking of diplomacy. Sylvanas asserts an Azerite fueled war would be the end of both factions, based, not on research of Azerite but a feeling, something we know now is false.
Even so, that does not rectify her failure. She promised the Horde to capture Teldrassil. She chose not to. She promised to avert an Azerite-fueled war. She chose not to. She promised time and again she would win the war. She has failed. Now tell me, why will Thrall discover that she is a “Great Warchief” when he returns?
Worst part is, that could legitemately happen.
She’s better than Vol’jin and worse than Garrosh. That is the truth. Vol’jin didn’t do much and Garrosh did too much.
You can’t call Vol’jin a worser warchief if the Horde and the Alliance not really had any problems with him as warchief. What did Sylvanas what makes her better? Exactly, nothing. Her actions only give her a bad image.