ok so we agree but how does ERP in a game for 12 year olds come into this vanrii
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In World of Warcraft?
Please read the replies. No one’s against lightly romantic roleplay.
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Actually, people in this thread are. I was literally whispered for 10 minutes by a person (who happens to have engaged in this thread speaking sanctimoniously against harassment), and when I ignored them, they literally switched character until I ignored them again, calling me a pedo and a groomer just because I my character was being flirty with my BF’s character in Orgrimmar.
If it happened in a place where other people regularly RP (like Stormwind), I can easily see why people might take issue with that. Especially since vast majority of flirting like that happens among people who are going to or already ERP with each other.
But see - this is the problem.
Going after people who are grooming and doing dodgy stuff is okay, but going after people that are doing stuff within the TOU and targeting them with abuse when you know nothing about it doesn’t help anyone, and just makes for a toxic community.
Agreed for the fifth time.
Can we move on from this, now?
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yeah okay but how does romance RP factor into you claiming cyber on a game for ages 12 and over is ok
I’ve really lost your point here and I’d like to get back on the path, we already agree that basic romance RP isn’t rlly an issue
I refuse to believe that people who are in a committed relationship in the real life spend their time in Orgrimmar IC role playing their relationship also but in a cringe way
But even IF that was the case, it does not matter – it would not be ERP and therefore not part of the issue (at least the way you describe it)
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I assure you, couples play games together, they sometimes role play together, and sometimes they feel like flirting with each other cause its fun.
I’m raising the issue that you cannot create a better AD by harassing people, and encouraging those who are not just lost causes to evaluate how they respond. The only response to dodgy behaviour should be reporting to blizz, the fact that people in this thread use harassment (and harass people for behaviour that isn’t against TOU) is a problem.
Why are you blanket-blaming everyone with that?
I agree it isn’t right. It just seems your statements come off as accusations.
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Big disagree, RP is a community effort and we – as a community – have the right and burden to look out for that community, it is something Blizzard is unable to do (on their own)
If someone does extremely bad role play, the community removes them – not Blizzard/ the take that legality = legitimacy is always rly bad and this is a prime example
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I’m not blanket blaming everyone, i would say the names of the person in this thread that has harassed me for flirting, but that is against TOU. They happen to be a rather prolific poster on this thread.
Banning someone from engaging in the community is okay, however harassment is not.
*going after someone for no reason other than to own them is not okay
yeah I agree
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So that explains disregarding all the replies…
It all adds up now…
I really think you should DM said person for a more direct discussion. Posting the same points over and over and disregarding most replies except the ones from the suspect you’re addressing won’t be beneficial to this thread.
A lot of people agree with your points. I think now you should focus on contacting whoever you feel wronged you and speak up/talk it out. It’ll just be derailing the thread at this point since the focus isn’t about ERP anymore.
I highly suggest you make a thread of your own discussing whoever wronged you with those messages(obvs without mention due to TOS). It can spark up discussion about trying to make a difference between characters who have traits related to light/clean romance and those who have signs showing they’re mostly out to cyber/have ERP.
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As I’ve mentioned, me and my partner do RP together and do also have some character sets that are romantic, but we’re not using them as a vessel to flirt with each other IRL/OOC; we’re still exploring characters and how these relationships might affect them. I like to think the dynamic of Watrus and Khaltarr is nothing like what may be seen with our elves, and none of them are being treated like… well… foreplay.
That we are partners IRL just means I know I can trust Khaltarr with that sort of RP. Knowing he won’t make it a chance to get some jollies behind the computer screen.
No one is against characters in relationships; no one minds an emoted kiss, cuddle, or entwined fingers. Most people will also assume two adult characters in a relationship are intimate without needing to see it acted out. The good-old “fade to black”.
If people do have issue with innocent romance RP, it’s typically when it comes off as twee and misplaced PDA; characters flirting and giggling and ‘smooching’ in the middle of a warlord’s speech, as an example.
Being against ERP doesn’t mean being against romantic RP or even IRL partners RPing different IC couples together, that is an absurdity.
However, if you are ERPing, you should ask why you’re using WoW as titillation, regardless of whether it’s as an actual couple or not. There are better avenues, surely.
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Harassment is generally not OK, but really - who actually wants to see sexual advances in their chat logs? Blatant, on-the-nose sexual remarks? People alluding to ERP they’ve played out in the past with their friends? (I have personally witnessed all of these things many times)
Honestly, unless you’re (not specifically you, but the demographic) one of the few that participates in this, I’ll tell you who: nobody. The notion of “consenting adults” is irrelevant in World of Warcraft, because it’s not an applicable platform for “consenting adults” to partake in this kind of roleplay to begin with. Why can’t people find a game with an 18+ rating to do this? Better yet, and especially if they want to continue to play WoW, why can’t these things be done OUTSIDE of games altogether? It’s just not the place for it, and most people don’t want to see it; it’s not prude, it’s just common decency to not partake in these things on incorrect platforms
You know this, I know this, and everybody else knows this. If we’re to make Argent Dawn a better place, which I’d hope everyone on it would like to, then we can’t do that by overtly going against the game’s own age rating and supporting explicit content. That’d make everything else that people here strive for null and void if we can’t even stick to that + fumble the bag instantly
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It’s literally against the terms of service. Illegal. It has no place in WoW.
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How is it so hard to understand for some people. No one cares about what your relation to the other person is. ERP is not allowed by the ToS, not ever, not in any situation, regardless of factors.
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I’m really not a fan of the false equivalence between character relationships and ERP some people are tying to push here. It’s a logical fallacy. Plenty of media has romance present, WoW included. It is a matter of how it’s portrayed. There are things you can show in a 12+ environment and there are things you can’t. It’s not hard to see that most people are concerned and are addressing the latter.
Tossing two characters holding hands in the same bucket as crude displays of over-sexual and often times predatory behavior in an attempt to make this issue about blind harassment that supposedly catches more innocents in the crossfire than actually addressing the people breaking the ToS is disingenuous.
Sure, there will be cases where mistakes can happen because of how on edge people are. But this should speak a lot about how serious of a problem the ERP infestation is if people are becoming more and more paranoid and quicker to jump the gun as soon as any sort of romance gets brought up IC.
I pray we’re not there yet, but if Blizzard’s inaction keeps pushing the community, there will be a sad point where we’ll see guilds ousting any form of IC romantic relationships due to the fear of grooming and other sickening behavior, which would obviously not be ideal. However, one would have to be very selfish indeed to put their personal, non-ToS breaking, innocent and decent romantic roleplay above the safety of children and other vulnerable people.
But it doesn’t have to be like that, by the way. If Blizzard can get a wake-up call from this thread and act on this very bad ERP problem, getting rid of those toxic players, then your characters will be able to hold hands with way less judgement or chances of harassment coming your way from jaded people who have seen way too many disturbing in-game whispers.
Muddying the waters, getting bogged down in bizarre definitions, engaging in whataboutisms and so on, will only make it harder and in the long run worse for everyone.
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