They are the same.
You said that fanbase size never matters and shouldn’t matter. It doesn’t matter for the night elf fanbase. If they are reduced to mere advisors (as per the original intent), then so be it. It will probably be better for the story, so Blizzard can focus on Humans, Void Elves, Dwarves, Worgen and Draenei.
Thing is Leia, blizzard have good cause to focus on Orcs, Trolls, Tauren, Goblins - who compared to blood elves get very little attention. And if you want to improve the alliance, you can’t ignore the horde. The horde should also get improvements, but where it gets improvements is how you make the distinction.
They have good cause to focus on the night elves, due to how badly they’ve written this race, recompense, restoration for the night elves is the biggest alliance cry for any of their races.
More of the high elves is the biggest cry for new racial involvement. - they can’t ingore that.
this means that they will or should focus primarily on night elven and void/high elven development for the alliance, not ignoring draenei and dwarves too.
For the horde, the focus should be on orcs, trolls, goblins and tauren. If elves are the preimum, and you want people going back to the alliance, you shoudln’t be focusing on imprivng blodo elves and nightborne. There are many aspects of trolls, goblins, orcs, tauren that can be improved and made more appealing and exciting.
New races like ogres/mok’nathal, vampire undead/san’layn (venthyr types) would be good additions.
While I recommend a silvermoon rebuild, id ont’ recommend a huge blood elf focus at all, that should be be woven in a high elf centric exploration - it would be nice to have somet hings for blood elve too, but the idea is to to put that focus back on the alliance so players like you will want to switch back… And i think you would if night elvs and high elves are made as attractive as they can be on the alliance.
This was the motivation behind my suggesting that they deplete the blood elves and nightborne - but that might not be such a good idea because of how upset you would be… it would work though, . So the best approach would just not to develop the horde elves much - and focus on the alliance elves a lot.
There is good reason for this though, thehorde elves are very develoepd already, it’s the alliance elves that are in awful state, night elves devastated and trashy, void elves just slappedin there, and not much on the high elves either.
You off course want lots of blood elf development, i think blood elves should get something but it should have heavy void elf and high elf presence to shift focus back to the alliance… while the horde material heavily focuses on orcs, trolls, tauren, goblins
I repeat, we want a lot of people to play the alliance. For this you have to make night elve s and high/void elves your main attractions, without them, the impact would be minimal.
Humans are already way up there, and given reactions to them more emphasis isn’t going to do much at all
Ddwarves, worgen and Draenei - no matter how mcuh you improve these, wawrcraft players do not fidn these as appealing as humans and elves - bottom line.
Want horde players to pick alliance, make the alliance elves more attractive. Bring out the best in the night elves and void/high elves that both their really good lore has that hasn’t really been shown seriously in wow yet, and do some new stuff also that makes players go wow.
then, we will have some of you guys taking the alliance seriously.
Well you play an orc, goblin, troll or tauren then.
Sin’dorei and Shal’dorei fanbases shouldn’t be dictated to by the likes you little nelf fans like you. Your just a scummy night elf fan. Why should the Horde Elf fanbases listen to how you want to write our races out?
And Night Elves need to be depleted really. Maybe even removed as a playable race and have their place covered by the High Elves. They need to go back to being advisors to the Humans and the other core alliance races that we’ve got. Nelfs just aren’t needed. Maybe, it’s better for a stronger “nelf” presence to be with the Nightborne instead.
You’ve forgotten the aim of this topic is improve the alliance… not compensate the horde.
Also I’m not dictating anything, I am suggesting options I feel could work. I care enough about the horde to often include how I feel it should be balanced out… you always want cool things for everyone. What they did in TBC - BFA was give cooler things to the horde every single time, but they still had cool things for the alliance. Sadly, you seem to ignore all the other suggestins and just focus on the ones that make you go mad, and then respond like a hurt child, without thinking it through. This is the drawback of too much passion.
At least try to be objective, and trust I’m not out to get your fave race. So you don’t need to make these kind of responses above, they make you look sulky.
To that effect, I think blood elves and nightborne should never get shaman and druids. But night elves and void elves should get both shaman and druids each.
This would force the “pretty options” for both shaman and druids firmly on the alliance, So if you wanted pretty races of those… alliance is for you.
They could have used classes a bit more in that respect. As keen as I am for all elves to be druids and have a version of shaman through their arcane arts.
It will help the alliance appeal.
So to summarise:
The alliance races have to shine bright, and brighter than the horde ones. This doesn’t mean horde races shouldn’t be improved, they should, but they must go the extra mile for the alliance races, especially the popular ones. Cooler cities for night elves and void elves - better than Silvermoon and Suramar. As well as Draenei and Dwarves
Better improvements in story for all the alliance races. Must really bring them out, their depth, their variety, and how powerful they can be - Draenei, night elves and void elves are very powerful if you know their lore, but we haven’t seen them shine.
Slightly improved racials - minor buffs to some of the underperforming race racials. Strong ones don’t need buffs, but
Shaman and druids for both night elves and void elves (Entropists as shaman, void druids helping the Dreamwardens deal with the nightmare. Night elven moonguard conjurers have a combat style that use the arcane to command all 45 of the elementals, this works particularly well with the night elven respect for life forms. Void elves achieve the same. This underscores the alliance if you want a pretty druid or a pretty shaman. Void elves should get palas too.
Winning new allied races for the alliance. Horde should get cool ones, but the alliance ones should be the most desirable - that would be debatable for enough of the population to cause a lot of excitement for the game regardlesss of faction, if the job is done right, but they should have a knack for what would draw more people. Imo… a naga/elf 2-form race and a Sylvar type race would be hugely attractive. Now, a vampiric type race for horde - whether Venthyr type or San’llayn - i think wouuld be very popular… and an ogre/mok’nathal race (kinda like two in one also so you can make a mok’nathal that looks essentially like a smaller oger (use the ku’tiran model) or one that looks more like RExxar.
I also feel these horde options would be very popular, but the alliance ones would be more popular overall. This is how I figured it out.Alliance you have cool, badass, pretty (naga elf - naga form for cool monster, and sea elf form for pretty) and cute & furry (sylvar). While the horde ones are cool,
So blizzard decided instead to just open up cross faction pvE - no extra features, no extra lore. THis will be my last post on a colossal waste of my effort and time.
FYI Leia, you took all of this way too personally. I only suggested blizzard do to the alliance what they had done with the horde from TBC to BFA, and to the horde what they had done to the alliance during wow from TBC onwards, to boost the alliance. You’ve basically been criticising what blizzard did. Yet you got offended, you got offended at all the suggestions, failing to realise this is what alliance fans went through.
I just merely reversed what had been done in most of the suggestion, and fit it to current circumstances.
What actually happened was night elves nerfed, dwarves nerfed, most of what they were good at not made visible or shown, instead new blood elves were made to shine, and given the best features at the time they could , - and this was often repeated whether goblins, or orcs… even night elven based nightborne, though a night elf thing, were handed over.
So I suggested that just like the alliance also got improvements but the horde got better, this time round the horde should get improvements but the alliance get better ones.
Just like how night elves were played down, not shown properly and often used as scapegoats, I suggested the blood elves incur some losses at the hands of the night elves in some suggestions, in others i just suggested they focus on the alliance races shining in combat and in story.
You got offended at the blood elves being minimised and at the horde races you don’t like (i.e. all of them except the elves), not being improved, yet for the alliance, a similar thing happened, the elves and pretty much every alliance race was ignored and only humans given serious attention.
You got very upset, yet failed to see or realise the things you were getting upset over were what your alliance counterparts had gone through and the consistent neglect or subdued treatment had driven most of them off - either to the horde or just out of the game.
Now I have confirmation that blizzard would do the easier option of opening cross faction pvE rather than fix the factions.
I also suspect they will open up Silvermoon and Suramar to be shared with the origina elf factions than waste resources giving them new cities. Silvermoon will probably get updated, and the high elves and void elves will share it.
This is the most cost effective way, and it only takes a great story to make everyone cool with it. . It i is not what either of us wanted. I wanted a separate city for both alliance elven groups, that superseded the earlier high elf and night elf cities done. Not because i hate the horde and i want the alliance to be better… you always got that wrong.
But because i want the new stuff to look better, and i know the alliance needs it to recover both it’s lost fans and to actually recompense the races they subdued for so long to make the horde look big.
I will not be around to experience the final outcome, I really feel it, but hey.
Now come along - did you honestly expect Blizzard to give your thoughts…especially thoughts on blood elves and nightborne, serious consideration?
It was never on the cards.
Unlikely.
Suramar is open world content and Silvermoon update and Draenei Isles update will focus on those races’ specific factions.
Void elves will probably not get a city and high elves going to Silvermoon are under Sin’dorei authority and leadership. Probably just join the Horde and the Blood Elves and Nightborne, whereby some of them were in Silvermoon.
Suramar is already shared, it just eneds to be officially so. It is the home where most of the night eves ou play come from, and the story line already had Moonguard, Priestesses and druids, including the VAlewalker moving into the city with the Arcan’dor.
Also the Kirin’tor would be there too helping out… there is no reason why the Nightborne would be enemies to any night elf, even if joining the horde, and I don’t see how or why hatred should build up enough to cause those night elves or Kirin’tor to move away.
There are other focuses and tings at play other than the human/orc faction based hatred.
With cross play coming into play too, it’s high time blizzard started emphasising more collaborations between races in opposite sides.
Suramar make s an excellent focal point for night elf/nightborne one, and one that is led by a horde aligned race for a change, given that the previous two, Shattrath (TBC) and Dalaran (WotLK) were alliance race aligned led. Besides the Suramar situation is very nuanced, because off course, we have a night elven race on the other side and one that isn’t based on conflict with the alliance.
The situation is certainly different for the Thalassians, they have built up for more conflict and segregation, but they have also provided plenty of healthy reasons too for trying to make it work out. Void elves desperately want their kin back, just not on the horde, they would accept minimal faction involvement, and it is an easy step to see the blood elves needing the void elves to work on protecting the very appealing (to the void agents) Sunwell from the void realm. - this is an easy development to give an incentive for collaboration in Quel’thalas… there is more that can be done, war that can lead to peace, especially if there is an attempt to cease Quel’thalas by the alliance, but the resulting conflict threatens a Sunwell implosion and a void attack happens at the same time, will be sufficient to cause the Thalassians to combine together to keep the faction conflict outside Quel’thalas by having both elven sides involved, , and also work together against the threat of the void for their people and the world.
It won’t stop them having those who hate each other, or aiming to convince their cohorts to join the other side, it just means that inside Quel’thalas they work together and don’t kill each other whether they want to be friends or enemies. Any killing inside is punishable by death or exile, They want the war out of Quel’thalas.
totally different situation from the kaldorei/shal’dorei. AS it should be.
These two races and groups which are actually the most popular in both factions, can be the basis of a cross faction corporation… providing a suitable counter to conflict.
I think it will help the alliance more than the horde, because of the weakened state the alliance is currently in. If the position of strength was reversed, it would help the horde more . It is the less popular , ore starved side that would be excited more about this, and this is what you want to help them.
Now if you end up feeling like you are a second class citizen because the other faction is shared. then that is your problem. All i can say is that no draenei felt they were lesser in Shattrath because the horde was there too, nor did any human fan feel that they were less in Dalaran because the horde was there, some didn’t like alliance assets being neutral, or so many as was very much the trend back then, but no one fel t they were second class.
that is just your zealotry.
Not every night elf is over 10,000 years old.
Ion has already stated that the lore won’t be massively impacted through this change. It will be a player-thing. Not a lore influence thing.
Most is not every.
You’d be naive to think the lore wouldn’t lean to reflect this. It should.
And most night elves are not over 10,000 years old.
When the lead states that the lore won’t be heavily impacted, I’m inclined to go with what he says.
This aged well
Ikr, they tend to go the easier route if possible these days. 20 years ago, they’d go the awe and WOW.
Wanna know my shrewd estimate for alliance elves?
at max we’ll get one new city for both night elves and void elves (it will probably be a tidied up version of somthing like Shyhold or Bastion). Suramar will be netural like it has awlays been, with the nighthold the “home” section for horde. SIlvermoon updated.
What is more likely is that Suramar will be the new night elf city shared with the nightborne, and updated Silvermoon would be home for all thalassian elves. Thes tory would set up the two.
Don’t know your wow history do you, and he didn’t say it wouldn’t happen at all, he did say they are taking tentative “baby” steps, and will look to do more later.
Most kaldorei are, if you think about it - they were not popping out babies and having a comfy life during the long vigil. With most men sleeping for 1000s of years at a time, and constantly on vigil and watch duty.
They weren’t building society/civilization and carrying on a normal life - it was military, high alert. Think !!
for crapping the night elves, it is better sense if most of the ones you kill are the young ones, you then have a better excuse as why some of them came off so poor - notice this is exactly who get wiped out in Ashenvale and darkshore in the WoT
Most of the survivors too are the most experienced and ancient ones, amongst all of them.
Shandris Feathermoon, General of the Sentinels was from a night elf town, away from Suramar.
They’ve been doing it for years then, since both factions have been involved with the same raids.
I think it’s just time to stop obsessing over Horde locations.
She is very likely from Suramar, just not the city… you do realise that all of the broken isles is part of Suramar and it is only part of what is sunk beneath the sea right.
Before the Sundering, it wasn’t far from Zin’Azsahri at all, but off course the sundering caused a lot of change of which drift was.
In WotA, Tyrande rescues her not too far from the events in Suramar.
No. She’s from Aran-Hamim - a village with no specific location, only that the people from the village fled to Zin-Azshari after it was destroyed.
So, by all accounts, the village was closer to Zin-Azshari
She was a refugee from her destroyed village, where most of those townsfolk went to the Capital.
Yes she is from Aran-Hamim, but if you bothered to read WotA you would know it isn’t far from Suramar City, nor from Zin’Azshari - shish man, do you just like to argue?
Yes, and other sources put the most likely location in Suramar region.
You are arguing against a “most likely” statement, not even a definitive one. That’s just plain argumentative. I don’t know where she is from exactly. Nor am I stating where exactly either. I am merely using the information provided. What is there to argue about? Except for being argumentative.
Where is your proof that it’s close to Suramar?
You really are obsessed over night elves being in Suramar. Get a grip - we do have night elves in Suramar, they are just called “Nightborne.” Want Suramar? Play a Nightborne. Nelfs can have bits of Kalimdor.
You’re obsessing over me pointing out to you Suramar is night elven, and that being on the horde doesn’t stop nightborne from being who they are or being connected to night elves, nor does being on the horde stop blood elves from being who they are and connected to high elves.
You have a problem with this, because this indicates they’re alliance connection which you seem to want to pretend doesn’t exist so they can be all horde in your head. I know that because you go into a fit rage every time I bring it up, and it’s your persistence that causes me to repeat what you already know.
You then turn around and accuse me of being obsessive.
Like I can’t talk about Suramar as a viable option regarding night elves, which it is, like it’s some taboo, all because of your faction centred rivalry. You can’t take a 3rd person view out or consider any of these groups outside the confines of faction, despite the lore creating for them a history that is thousands of years older than the alliance and horde.
you keep bringing this up and you keep emphasising and reiterating on it constantly.
You are the one that keeps bringing up blood elves and what must the horde get in a thread that is ail bout the alliance and improving it, and the other thread which is about a night elf city. And you then turn around and accuse me of being obsessive by pointing out what you seem to keep forgetting.
If I’m being obsessive, it’s because of your obsession, you’re the source of this one here.
I keep bringing that part up because you keep harping to it out of everything that is being said as if you don’t accept it, not I. Your posts on these forums dwarf mine, especially on elves, I don’t even come close. You patrol the forums as if looking to pounce on any body who dares contradict your faction centred view on elves.
You don’t care for what the lore or story is actually telling you, only how you want to view them in this puritan segregated horde vs alliance.
This is why you are having so much trouble rationally discussing solutions to improve the alliance if they concern elves. You lose all rationalism and sense when it comes to them and your precious horde elves. Seeing attacks where non exist, are you that offended and hurt by it?
Or do we just rub each other that way?