So size only matters when you want to get what you want, but when it doesn’t work in your favour, it doens’t matter - logic and common sense play no role whatsoever.
I’m not saying other races don’t need attention, they do, said so tons of times, but you don’t see a fraction of interest in them getting spotlight compared to elves.
This doesn’t mean they shouldn’t get attention, they should, but it also means you would do well to also improve the elves too.
not all nelves need improving, but blizzard has consistently massacred and dumped on the night elves, so they need improving like a new city for examples and being restored after yet another heavy defeat that brought them to extinction levels. That needs sorting out.
void elves too were quite slapdash introduced… on the horde, blood elves and nightborne have got a lot of attention. I know you’re a horde player so you experience a lot of the Thalassians and night elves on that faction, but the alliance counterparts have had a lot less to go on, and when they’ve got attention it’s often been negative.
Given how much people care for these, if you want the alliance popular again and you want to improve it, your main focus should be these races, doing well for them, but also you shouldn’t ignore the others. the draenei def need some propping up too But let’ not forget they’ve featured heavily in 3 expansions, compared to the night elves’ 1, and they’re far less popular.
Also a lot of red players keep saying they should give up, and not bother about this… why is that? given up on the alliance? or is it a rival thing - i.e. other faction, enemy - don’t care, they can disappear for all you care ? Or don’t improve them, find any other way to fix the problem so the faction you play stays the better of the two?
it is in the interest of the game that both factions are actually incredible and well balanced. The horde has been incredible for a while, an the incredible things about the alliance races, while there in the lore, aren’t shown well, if they do a good job of showing them well, and focus on writing well , doing cool art stuff to improve them, they’ll draw people
How can the night elves be homeless with capability to build cities like Suramar, grow world trees like Teldrassil and have a freaking power well?
how can the Draenei still be in a broken down ship when they can build cities like Shattrath in WoD and Auchindoun in WoD with an arsenal like those lasers and tanks and the atam’l crystal?
Why do dwarves come off so shabby and lame, when they got such spirit and fire if its’s not for a lack of opportunity in showcasing their prowess… seriously, Ironforge and Thaurissan CIty/BRD haven’t been updated since classic - go watch the hobbit, and come back and tell me dwarves can’t be awesome when you see a place like Erebor and the character an temerity of the the dwarf party and army.
The horde is shining … that’s why people are there, the alliance races have cool stuff fin their lore, but when they pop up their serenaded in neutrality, or leaned towards (sometimes go all the way horde) whereas the playable bunch are often looking like losers (outsdie humans ofc).
Outside humans, Tyrande is the first alliance non-human character to have a really cool good screentime show, and we had to wait for 8.1 and shadowlands to see that. Admittedly Illidan was cool in 7.2/7.3 too and Alleria coming in - that’s 14 years after the project started,
The alliance completion and good closure rate is also non exiestnet outside humans and compared to the horde.
Night elves nad other non-human races were shown, but htey were often just fodder, plot devices to either boost humans and cause the horde to shine.
the one night elf groupt hat got a new begining and a good end, were the Nightborne - and they would have given a second chance for a new start for the night elves after the cata storyline was just not improved on.
Yet, they took all that great story and lore and gave it tot he horde… I don’t resent that as much anymore, there are benefits for night evles been on the horde, but it demonstrates a lack of completion for alliance races and continues on trend of ignoring and rubbishing.
this has started turnig around in 8.1 for non-human races, but the ngiht elves and others are far off the new beginning with new hope the blood elves got in 2.4 with the sunwell being restored, and the nightboren got in 7.1 (admittedly before they went horde) - but as they went horde the night elves were left needing a grand pick up they haven’t got.
the equivalent would be for the nigh t elves to be restored, get their well and immortality back and rebuild their city, restoring their fallen orders with a new start of something significance. I would say the first time they have had all their orders united in moving forward and tapping their potential.
The void elves would need a proper zone focus story that brings them out, shows and develops their city and extends their lore where they are the focus, like every other allied race that has at least one (some having several (Dark irons, Mag’har, Zandalari and kul’tirans) zones to them. The Lightforged would need soe work. i would say more than the draenei.
The draenei got completion in ARgus, closure, and it was acknowledged, but no more on them about their new beginnings.
night elves have so much that has happened that has affected them. The end of the legion, healing of arcane addiction with the arcan’dor, return of Suramar, illidan exonerated of being a betrayer with the truth of the legion now out. The restoration of the most holy site of Elune, the Cathedral of Eternal night, the death, and now rebirth of Ysera - the meaning of the Night warrior ritual and how it could help and empower their people without going out of balance… the last logical reason to restrict using the well of Eternity is also gone - these are a huge changes for the race to et a powerful new start.
Yet, we haven’t seen it yet.
Dwarves
Also greatly ignored, but no one is championing their cause. reactions to Magni and Brann, developments of the Dark Irons, the revelations of the Titans, and how this can transform and elevate dwarves tot he next level. We didn’t even see much of the re-uniting with the earthern. This would have been HUGE for dwarves. Sure we got Brann’s appropriate remarks in ulduar, - but how does this filter down into dwarven society?
How cool can ironforge be in some sort of grandfusion of titan technology upgrades
Dwarvish character? sure we get the new explorer and intellectual which is really cool but i haven’t seen march of the stereotypical hard nosed dwarf, badass and gritty sturdy, nor have i seen the gold loving, wealth loving dwarf, nor the much evidence of the digger dwarf or the greedy dwarf.
That’s exactly what I said to you, when you wanted blood elves reduced, homeless and not impactful on the story.
So, I have basically turned your own idea for blood elf reduction and flipped it. So I can see that you know your idea was terrible but you wanted to force it onto the Sin’dorei fanbase and tell us that we don’t matter. You see - you don’t like it when it’s against you, but you think nothing of upsetting a fanbase that you deem, unimportant.
You’re being silly, you took to heart,misudnerstanding the context of that post so long ago, unalbe to see beyond your affections at a bigger picture. You were so offended you couldn’t learn anything from it and have since mis-characterised it.
The best stories always have deep falls in them. If the fall doens’t destroy you. the more tragic the tale the ore incredible the upswing, if the writer is smart about it. If hte blood elves go down, they would come back up again.
Although that doens’t happen to everyone, the night elves, have been going down and down and down - currently, since 8.1, they’ve just not been sinking further, but they aven’t regained or recovered or gotten a better future at all…
Sigh, there are reasons i suggest what i am suggesting, and there is a context for it. i state this, you can’t just ignore that, so consumed in faction fairenss, you totally miss the point and therefore don’t realise what is being said - and you think you are doing an equivalent reversal, but you’re not, becuase the same conditions and needs on the reverse faction are not the same.
You said that fanbase size never matters and shouldn’t matter. It doesn’t matter for the night elf fanbase. If they are reduced to mere advisors (as per the original intent), then so be it. It will probably be better for the story, so Blizzard can focus on Humans, Void Elves, Dwarves, Worgen and Draenei.
Thing is Leia, blizzard have good cause to focus on Orcs, Trolls, Tauren, Goblins - who compared to blood elves get very little attention. And if you want to improve the alliance, you can’t ignore the horde. The horde should also get improvements, but where it gets improvements is how you make the distinction.
They have good cause to focus on the night elves, due to how badly they’ve written this race, recompense, restoration for the night elves is the biggest alliance cry for any of their races.
More of the high elves is the biggest cry for new racial involvement. - they can’t ingore that.
this means that they will or should focus primarily on night elven and void/high elven development for the alliance, not ignoring draenei and dwarves too.
For the horde, the focus should be on orcs, trolls, goblins and tauren. If elves are the preimum, and you want people going back to the alliance, you shoudln’t be focusing on imprivng blodo elves and nightborne. There are many aspects of trolls, goblins, orcs, tauren that can be improved and made more appealing and exciting.
New races like ogres/mok’nathal, vampire undead/san’layn (venthyr types) would be good additions.
While I recommend a silvermoon rebuild, id ont’ recommend a huge blood elf focus at all, that should be be woven in a high elf centric exploration - it would be nice to have somet hings for blood elve too, but the idea is to to put that focus back on the alliance so players like you will want to switch back… And i think you would if night elvs and high elves are made as attractive as they can be on the alliance.
This was the motivation behind my suggesting that they deplete the blood elves and nightborne - but that might not be such a good idea because of how upset you would be… it would work though, . So the best approach would just not to develop the horde elves much - and focus on the alliance elves a lot.
There is good reason for this though, thehorde elves are very develoepd already, it’s the alliance elves that are in awful state, night elves devastated and trashy, void elves just slappedin there, and not much on the high elves either.
You off course want lots of blood elf development, i think blood elves should get something but it should have heavy void elf and high elf presence to shift focus back to the alliance… while the horde material heavily focuses on orcs, trolls, tauren, goblins
I repeat, we want a lot of people to play the alliance. For this you have to make night elve s and high/void elves your main attractions, without them, the impact would be minimal.
Humans are already way up there, and given reactions to them more emphasis isn’t going to do much at all
Ddwarves, worgen and Draenei - no matter how mcuh you improve these, wawrcraft players do not fidn these as appealing as humans and elves - bottom line.
Want horde players to pick alliance, make the alliance elves more attractive. Bring out the best in the night elves and void/high elves that both their really good lore has that hasn’t really been shown seriously in wow yet, and do some new stuff also that makes players go wow.
then, we will have some of you guys taking the alliance seriously.
Well you play an orc, goblin, troll or tauren then.
Sin’dorei and Shal’dorei fanbases shouldn’t be dictated to by the likes you little nelf fans like you. Your just a scummy night elf fan. Why should the Horde Elf fanbases listen to how you want to write our races out?
And Night Elves need to be depleted really. Maybe even removed as a playable race and have their place covered by the High Elves. They need to go back to being advisors to the Humans and the other core alliance races that we’ve got. Nelfs just aren’t needed. Maybe, it’s better for a stronger “nelf” presence to be with the Nightborne instead.
You’ve forgotten the aim of this topic is improve the alliance… not compensate the horde.
Also I’m not dictating anything, I am suggesting options I feel could work. I care enough about the horde to often include how I feel it should be balanced out… you always want cool things for everyone. What they did in TBC - BFA was give cooler things to the horde every single time, but they still had cool things for the alliance. Sadly, you seem to ignore all the other suggestins and just focus on the ones that make you go mad, and then respond like a hurt child, without thinking it through. This is the drawback of too much passion.
At least try to be objective, and trust I’m not out to get your fave race. So you don’t need to make these kind of responses above, they make you look sulky.
To that effect, I think blood elves and nightborne should never get shaman and druids. But night elves and void elves should get both shaman and druids each.
This would force the “pretty options” for both shaman and druids firmly on the alliance, So if you wanted pretty races of those… alliance is for you.
They could have used classes a bit more in that respect. As keen as I am for all elves to be druids and have a version of shaman through their arcane arts.
It will help the alliance appeal.
So to summarise:
The alliance races have to shine bright, and brighter than the horde ones. This doesn’t mean horde races shouldn’t be improved, they should, but they must go the extra mile for the alliance races, especially the popular ones. Cooler cities for night elves and void elves - better than Silvermoon and Suramar. As well as Draenei and Dwarves
Better improvements in story for all the alliance races. Must really bring them out, their depth, their variety, and how powerful they can be - Draenei, night elves and void elves are very powerful if you know their lore, but we haven’t seen them shine.
Slightly improved racials - minor buffs to some of the underperforming race racials. Strong ones don’t need buffs, but
Shaman and druids for both night elves and void elves (Entropists as shaman, void druids helping the Dreamwardens deal with the nightmare. Night elven moonguard conjurers have a combat style that use the arcane to command all 45 of the elementals, this works particularly well with the night elven respect for life forms. Void elves achieve the same. This underscores the alliance if you want a pretty druid or a pretty shaman. Void elves should get palas too.
Winning new allied races for the alliance. Horde should get cool ones, but the alliance ones should be the most desirable - that would be debatable for enough of the population to cause a lot of excitement for the game regardlesss of faction, if the job is done right, but they should have a knack for what would draw more people. Imo… a naga/elf 2-form race and a Sylvar type race would be hugely attractive. Now, a vampiric type race for horde - whether Venthyr type or San’llayn - i think wouuld be very popular… and an ogre/mok’nathal race (kinda like two in one also so you can make a mok’nathal that looks essentially like a smaller oger (use the ku’tiran model) or one that looks more like RExxar.
I also feel these horde options would be very popular, but the alliance ones would be more popular overall. This is how I figured it out.Alliance you have cool, badass, pretty (naga elf - naga form for cool monster, and sea elf form for pretty) and cute & furry (sylvar). While the horde ones are cool,
Free faction transfers from high population horde realms - till they have equally active populations… only for 1 expansion.
So blizzard decided instead to just open up cross faction pvE - no extra features, no extra lore. THis will be my last post on a colossal waste of my effort and time.
FYI Leia, you took all of this way too personally. I only suggested blizzard do to the alliance what they had done with the horde from TBC to BFA, and to the horde what they had done to the alliance during wow from TBC onwards, to boost the alliance. You’ve basically been criticising what blizzard did. Yet you got offended, you got offended at all the suggestions, failing to realise this is what alliance fans went through.
I just merely reversed what had been done in most of the suggestion, and fit it to current circumstances.
What actually happened was night elves nerfed, dwarves nerfed, most of what they were good at not made visible or shown, instead new blood elves were made to shine, and given the best features at the time they could , - and this was often repeated whether goblins, or orcs… even night elven based nightborne, though a night elf thing, were handed over.
So I suggested that just like the alliance also got improvements but the horde got better, this time round the horde should get improvements but the alliance get better ones.
Just like how night elves were played down, not shown properly and often used as scapegoats, I suggested the blood elves incur some losses at the hands of the night elves in some suggestions, in others i just suggested they focus on the alliance races shining in combat and in story.
You got offended at the blood elves being minimised and at the horde races you don’t like (i.e. all of them except the elves), not being improved, yet for the alliance, a similar thing happened, the elves and pretty much every alliance race was ignored and only humans given serious attention.
You got very upset, yet failed to see or realise the things you were getting upset over were what your alliance counterparts had gone through and the consistent neglect or subdued treatment had driven most of them off - either to the horde or just out of the game.
Now I have confirmation that blizzard would do the easier option of opening cross faction pvE rather than fix the factions.
I also suspect they will open up Silvermoon and Suramar to be shared with the origina elf factions than waste resources giving them new cities. Silvermoon will probably get updated, and the high elves and void elves will share it.
This is the most cost effective way, and it only takes a great story to make everyone cool with it. . It i is not what either of us wanted. I wanted a separate city for both alliance elven groups, that superseded the earlier high elf and night elf cities done. Not because i hate the horde and i want the alliance to be better… you always got that wrong.
But because i want the new stuff to look better, and i know the alliance needs it to recover both it’s lost fans and to actually recompense the races they subdued for so long to make the horde look big.
I will not be around to experience the final outcome, I really feel it, but hey.
Now come along - did you honestly expect Blizzard to give your thoughts…especially thoughts on blood elves and nightborne, serious consideration?
It was never on the cards.
Unlikely.
Suramar is open world content and Silvermoon update and Draenei Isles update will focus on those races’ specific factions.
Void elves will probably not get a city and high elves going to Silvermoon are under Sin’dorei authority and leadership. Probably just join the Horde and the Blood Elves and Nightborne, whereby some of them were in Silvermoon.
Suramar is already shared, it just eneds to be officially so. It is the home where most of the night eves ou play come from, and the story line already had Moonguard, Priestesses and druids, including the VAlewalker moving into the city with the Arcan’dor.
Also the Kirin’tor would be there too helping out… there is no reason why the Nightborne would be enemies to any night elf, even if joining the horde, and I don’t see how or why hatred should build up enough to cause those night elves or Kirin’tor to move away.
There are other focuses and tings at play other than the human/orc faction based hatred.
With cross play coming into play too, it’s high time blizzard started emphasising more collaborations between races in opposite sides.
Suramar make s an excellent focal point for night elf/nightborne one, and one that is led by a horde aligned race for a change, given that the previous two, Shattrath (TBC) and Dalaran (WotLK) were alliance race aligned led. Besides the Suramar situation is very nuanced, because off course, we have a night elven race on the other side and one that isn’t based on conflict with the alliance.
The situation is certainly different for the Thalassians, they have built up for more conflict and segregation, but they have also provided plenty of healthy reasons too for trying to make it work out. Void elves desperately want their kin back, just not on the horde, they would accept minimal faction involvement, and it is an easy step to see the blood elves needing the void elves to work on protecting the very appealing (to the void agents) Sunwell from the void realm. - this is an easy development to give an incentive for collaboration in Quel’thalas… there is more that can be done, war that can lead to peace, especially if there is an attempt to cease Quel’thalas by the alliance, but the resulting conflict threatens a Sunwell implosion and a void attack happens at the same time, will be sufficient to cause the Thalassians to combine together to keep the faction conflict outside Quel’thalas by having both elven sides involved, , and also work together against the threat of the void for their people and the world.
It won’t stop them having those who hate each other, or aiming to convince their cohorts to join the other side, it just means that inside Quel’thalas they work together and don’t kill each other whether they want to be friends or enemies. Any killing inside is punishable by death or exile, They want the war out of Quel’thalas.
totally different situation from the kaldorei/shal’dorei. AS it should be.
These two races and groups which are actually the most popular in both factions, can be the basis of a cross faction corporation… providing a suitable counter to conflict.
I think it will help the alliance more than the horde, because of the weakened state the alliance is currently in. If the position of strength was reversed, it would help the horde more . It is the less popular , ore starved side that would be excited more about this, and this is what you want to help them.
Now if you end up feeling like you are a second class citizen because the other faction is shared. then that is your problem. All i can say is that no draenei felt they were lesser in Shattrath because the horde was there too, nor did any human fan feel that they were less in Dalaran because the horde was there, some didn’t like alliance assets being neutral, or so many as was very much the trend back then, but no one fel t they were second class.
Ikr, they tend to go the easier route if possible these days. 20 years ago, they’d go the awe and WOW.
Wanna know my shrewd estimate for alliance elves?
at max we’ll get one new city for both night elves and void elves (it will probably be a tidied up version of somthing like Shyhold or Bastion). Suramar will be netural like it has awlays been, with the nighthold the “home” section for horde. SIlvermoon updated.
What is more likely is that Suramar will be the new night elf city shared with the nightborne, and updated Silvermoon would be home for all thalassian elves. Thes tory would set up the two.
Don’t know your wow history do you, and he didn’t say it wouldn’t happen at all, he did say they are taking tentative “baby” steps, and will look to do more later.
Most kaldorei are, if you think about it - they were not popping out babies and having a comfy life during the long vigil. With most men sleeping for 1000s of years at a time, and constantly on vigil and watch duty.
They weren’t building society/civilization and carrying on a normal life - it was military, high alert. Think !!
for crapping the night elves, it is better sense if most of the ones you kill are the young ones, you then have a better excuse as why some of them came off so poor - notice this is exactly who get wiped out in Ashenvale and darkshore in the WoT
Most of the survivors too are the most experienced and ancient ones, amongst all of them.