She is very likely from Suramar, just not the city… you do realise that all of the broken isles is part of Suramar and it is only part of what is sunk beneath the sea right.
Before the Sundering, it wasn’t far from Zin’Azsahri at all, but off course the sundering caused a lot of change of which drift was.
In WotA, Tyrande rescues her not too far from the events in Suramar.
Yes she is from Aran-Hamim, but if you bothered to read WotA you would know it isn’t far from Suramar City, nor from Zin’Azshari - shish man, do you just like to argue?
Yes, and other sources put the most likely location in Suramar region.
You are arguing against a “most likely” statement, not even a definitive one. That’s just plain argumentative. I don’t know where she is from exactly. Nor am I stating where exactly either. I am merely using the information provided. What is there to argue about? Except for being argumentative.
You really are obsessed over night elves being in Suramar. Get a grip - we do have night elves in Suramar, they are just called “Nightborne.” Want Suramar? Play a Nightborne. Nelfs can have bits of Kalimdor.
You’re obsessing over me pointing out to you Suramar is night elven, and that being on the horde doesn’t stop nightborne from being who they are or being connected to night elves, nor does being on the horde stop blood elves from being who they are and connected to high elves.
You have a problem with this, because this indicates they’re alliance connection which you seem to want to pretend doesn’t exist so they can be all horde in your head. I know that because you go into a fit rage every time I bring it up, and it’s your persistence that causes me to repeat what you already know.
You then turn around and accuse me of being obsessive.
Like I can’t talk about Suramar as a viable option regarding night elves, which it is, like it’s some taboo, all because of your faction centred rivalry. You can’t take a 3rd person view out or consider any of these groups outside the confines of faction, despite the lore creating for them a history that is thousands of years older than the alliance and horde.
you keep bringing this up and you keep emphasising and reiterating on it constantly.
You are the one that keeps bringing up blood elves and what must the horde get in a thread that is ail bout the alliance and improving it, and the other thread which is about a night elf city. And you then turn around and accuse me of being obsessive by pointing out what you seem to keep forgetting.
If I’m being obsessive, it’s because of your obsession, you’re the source of this one here.
I keep bringing that part up because you keep harping to it out of everything that is being said as if you don’t accept it, not I. Your posts on these forums dwarf mine, especially on elves, I don’t even come close. You patrol the forums as if looking to pounce on any body who dares contradict your faction centred view on elves.
You don’t care for what the lore or story is actually telling you, only how you want to view them in this puritan segregated horde vs alliance.
This is why you are having so much trouble rationally discussing solutions to improve the alliance if they concern elves. You lose all rationalism and sense when it comes to them and your precious horde elves. Seeing attacks where non exist, are you that offended and hurt by it?
Suramar was never Alliance. If you think it was, then your a fool to yourself and can not be trusted with lore arguments.
You don’t care for the lore either. You only care about your headcanons and pushing them into the story.
What you say is not canon and it never will be. You just make up lore to suit your headcanon, because that is your safe space. You can’t accept the current lore. You have to put your headcanons onto ancient lore, because you can’t get accept what is happening in the present.
Astonishing, how you can read some thing and pretend to not know what the other person is communicating.
I grew up with sisters, I know where that skill comes from… Don’t bandy words with me boy, or I will fist on hips and thump your ears for you.
It’s a fantasy, I’m allowed to have headcanons on where I would like the future of this story to go or head canons about how I’d like to have the alliance improve too.
If you can’t talk constructively about it and get but hurt over what I didn’t say the horde would get, which you bring up, then that’s on you. It’s also on you if you get very offended by night elves and high elves being alliance based, and can’t accept that is stuff related to allaince races, in an alliance mould taken over to the horde that you enjoy so much.
Great - talk about Alliance improvements. Don’t involve two core Horde races in that fold.
FYI - Blood Elves, Nightborne, Silvermoon and Suramar are Horde places. No to sharing, no to anything for the Alliance with those places. You have to be creative and think of places away from Quel’Thalas and Suramar. The alliance has no hold over those locations.
You just want blood elves to exist without high elves meaning anything, because they’re not horde, to the extent you pretend as if the alliance and those elves are not connected at all.
And you’re repeating the same for nightborne.
Surely you are aware how many people who play this game do not share your view on that elf situation at all. In fact they want a lot more things to do with high elves, void elves and night elves that involves their homes of Quel’thalas and the pre-sundering kaldorei civilization as well as all things part of the long vigil.
Who are you to tell them they can’t have it, and it isn’t theirs - or condemn anyone asking or suggesting for more of it? Was it your creation? are you a blizzard employee determining the development there? Are you a wizard wanting to manipulate everyone to what you want?
These elves are there on and there are a lot of people who just don’t want to forget the high elves nor their alliance connection, or dissociate the night elves from literally half of their identify so that you can brag and feel fat about a part of bunch of races that are tied to the opposite faction - just for faction pride reasons.
Not sure what you can’t handle about blood elves being alliance based and why it offends you, everyone knows all elves were on the alliance first, and blizzard caused first a large portion for the high elves to side with the horde, then took the night elf sub-race to do so, leaving it sufficiently unclear how they feel about their kin. They did this only to the elven alliance races…
Yet it surprises you and annoys you that alliance players or high elf and night elf fans want more of their race’s heritage and lore being available and visibly a part of the playable factions - I mean come on.
You’re not the only fan of these groups, stop biting our heads off wanting stuff we clearly like, read about and have been a part of the races we’re talking about.
Suramar has long been part of the night elves, why it should surprise you that it is brought up concerning the playable night elves surprises me.
Same with Quel’thalas, Silvermoon a concerning high elves and void elves.
So, we are only to explore options that don’t involve Silvermoon or Suramar? why? because you don’t like it? Because you feel threatened? Why do you even feel threatened by something like that, do you not understand that this is the original home of the high elves and of Suramar is of the night elves.
Why are you so threatened by night elves and the not-playable high elves, not having those locations? Don’t you understand that the rightful inhabitants of their areas live in those areas.
Blood Elves are not alliance based, just because you say so.
Who are you to say that they should have it and have two playerbases left feeling like crap? All because you have a kink for night elf mages. We all know where it starts with you. “Oh lets have them share” he says, then it goes into “Blizzard, you may as well just kick the blood elves and nightborne, who are Horde-like, out of Quel’Thalas and Suramar. They don’t fit in those locations now. Give those to the Alliance and we’ll build up those exiled horde elves in a couple of expansions.”
You are not to be trusted with Horde lore, Horde races or Horde locations because you are a fake.
Why are you so obsessed with night elf mages? Go and play night elf mages.
You’ve had this obsession with Suramar for 4 years. Move on.
You always make this many assumptions? You presume too much Minaria Leia,
Seeing my main is a blood elf, and i have just as many Nightborne as night elf toons, and void elf as blood elf toons, and like them just as much.
You on the ohter hand definitely heavily play your horde toons. The reaosn i stand so much for the alliance is because anyone who is unbiased and fair can see they have defintiley received the lesser of the two factions.
And the reason I have to talk about night elves so much, especially their aracne connection, is not because i like it anymore than their other saspects, , it’s because you keep refusing to see what’s plain in front you, rpesumably because you do’nt want to.
You have some fetish with blood elves and the arcane and feel only they should be entitled to it, therefore you ignore a good half of the kaldorei - I think you do half of this just out of spite, as if your spite changes the lore… it just makes you look well, spiteful.
Trust me you are the reason I go on as much about the things I do, i just can’t help it when people say incorrect things - i know I should just not respond, but then part of me like s you becasue despite all the other things, your genuinely do like what you like, and even if I disagree with 3/4 of your reasons, I respect thhat and I don’t to actually hurt you, just convince you to look beyond your fascination of blood elves.
Why would any one need to trust me on horde lore or any other lore, the lore is there, if i say something, go read it and find it for yourself. Not believing the truth doesn’t stop it from being true or existing.
I do, 2 in fact. and I have 1 blood elf mage, 1 nightborne, 2 void elf ones too.
But then I have 6 druids, 5 hunters, 4 rogues, 5 warriors, 5 priests, 4 monks, etc, but I’m not counting, are you?
I would…if the majority of what you said was true.
So - you wanted Blood Elf lore to reduce their Arcane Mastery and give it to the Night Elves and Void Elves. Blood Elves go more into fel and necromancy whilst all forms of the Alliance Elves are shown.
You try and play the victim now, with all the sob stories of “I’m just passionate.”
Blizzard will take whatever direction they want and if that means they put more emphasis onto Thalassian Arcane Mastery over the night elves, then that is what will be. I mean, they’ve done that ever since TBC anyway. Can’t see why they’d change it now.
And to me, you’ve always been spiteful of what the Horde Elves have.
As do I. Your the reason why I go on so much about the Quel’Thalas Arcane Mastery. I mean, you talk about the lore, you should know the Sin’dorei Magisters make up some of the most accomplished Magi on Azeroth. It’s in the lore.
Just because it’s part of the sin’dorei story, doesn’t mean the nelfs need to try and take it. They can have their mastery of the nature and Druidism with that being their core staple thing.
I don’t trust you with your suggestions. That’s the top and tale of it. To me, their is still that undercover of trying to take from the Horde to give it to the Alliance. That is your ultimate motive with your suggestions.
But then we all know your suggestions of trying to minimise blood elf lore is nothing, because what would their starter zone be? Or do you intent on giving blood elf players the automatic level 8 boost and they get teleported to Orgrimmar? I mean, this is why your a failure at ideas. You can’t even come up with an idea on what happens to the Blood Elves and Nightborne - and you, ultimately, want Blizzard to do something which is a 3/4 incomplete idea? No thanks - we’ve got Shadowlands which is a 3/4 incomplete idea. We don’t need you adding to more of that nonsense.
EDIT: You should be happy with this cross-faction pugging. You can now have a group full of Night Elves and Blood Elves players, if you’d like. Or Night Elves and Nightborne players…
I talk about a lot of things. However, when you say I am obsessed with night elf arcane stuff - since I know I am not, the only cause you may have to say that is how much I go on about it.
However I only mention it in topics where I am talking about the night elves been portrayed to their full extent, and in those topics I would only specifically talk about it again if someone else commented on it.
You comment on it far more so than you comment on any other aspect of the night elves, therefore you are the reason I appear to go on about it as much as I do, I’m responding to you.
FYI, i know about the sin’dorei masters, and not once have I stated or failed to acknowledge their arcane mastery - unlike you that seems to simply ignore half the night elven lore to ignore their arcane influence.
On the sin’dorei, we seem to have clashed only in the extent of their mastery compared to the night elves - it pretty much goes like this - you say night elves are crap at magic, I point out to you they’ve gone further and higher than the sin’dorei - and this annoys you.
I wonder why it does, it’s the lore, maybe mentioning it or reminding you about it makes it feel like I’m rubbing your face in it. But I’m not, and it shouldn’t make you feel like that unless you have built up some incorrect or unhealthy attachments to that supposition.
They are incredibly good at it, but the lore shows what it does, and I don’t make the lore.
That’s silly, you don’t have to trust by why not? They are just suggestions, you can not like them, that’s fair, butt trust them?
you only see some scheme or agenda behind everything because you have one, you so desperate to keep the sin’dorei “intact” to continue to have their arcane side the most prominent (I’ve read how you react to people assuming they’re light based Minaria) - it’s nonsense if you ask me.
Yet you patrol the forums in an enormous effort to try and convince the devs of something you don’t have to.
You don’t realise the devs can take the sin’dorei any direction they want, and you should be glad for it, it would never erase what they have concerning the arcane, because it’s in the lore… short of wiping them out of creating lore that says they are burned out, and even then, it will always be a part of them. Even if they move the blood leves very light centric or blood crystal magic focused or something new, they will still have an arcane base if that’s what the lroe gave them, new developments, heavily emphaisesed developments won’t change that. I’ve been trying to explain to you thtat this is the case with the night elves also. If blizzard didn’twant these elves to have that aspect of magic at their core, they’d have given them a different origin. If blizzard didn’t want night elves to have an arcane origin anda ptitutde, they’d have introduced the elves to the arcane only when they became high elves. If blizzard din’t want the blood elvesto have arcane but light instead, they’d have made their origin lightbased and totallyremoved the arcane.
Yet neither the arcane nor nature has been removed from any night elf group, nor has the light or the arcane been removed from the blood elves, so regardless of waht they choose to focus on now, whether it’s new thing like Night warrior or blood knights, or something else like Illidari or Farstriders for night elves and blood elves, you’d always have the arcane stuff for you. For fans who like that stuff. No point going on now to fans who like that stuff and tell them your race is all nature now, or your race is all light now - that’s either you being stupid or you being antagonistic - neither is good.
Sigh man, you still haven’t realised this about the night elves either or any other race, all their lore is connected to them, new developments, or emphasis on new things doesn’t erase old things…those are still part of their lore, especially when they’re integral to them.
The dwarves shifting from mining to exploration has never removed mining from them, it’ just evolved and set a focus on a new area, they still have the other area too. If blizzard didn’t want them to, they’d not have given them it, and would have totally remove d it.
Same with the night elves, non-Darnassians still use the arcane, Darnassians have started using it again, all night elves are still arcane created beings too, full of the talent, the Darnassians were generally out of practice with the arcane , but only they were, and that has changed since cata amongst those who picked it up full time.
Their society is no t in the same place as it was 10,000 years ago, nor 40 years ago, it’s changed again, this happens, the story maps it out, yet it has never removed arcane magic or the use of it from the race, just shown different phases of different groups of kaldorei.
It is what it is.
New things happen. Paladins is new for Thalassians, so is the night warrior for night elves, even though lore wise both groups have actually had both before in their past.
Being blood elf now, doesn’t mean all things they did as high elves is meaningless or untrue either, especially when it is the same individual that was once a high elf and now a blood elf… this goes for paladins, priests, mages, it goes for night elves, for nightborne or anyone.
It is what it is, no point getting upset with it.
I may seem obsessed because I bother to reply, but I’m just more interested in correcting mis-understanding when I see something, rather than being obsessed, I have had occasion to comment more on night elves, because they have far fewer people who both follow them deeply or understand them. Trust me I’d be doing the same for blood elves if they didn’t have you and a whole bunch of other fans constantly correcting and informing others on blood elf lore, who understand it well. they do this because they are fans of it.
Same with me, I do it because i am fans of the elves, night and Thalassian, I just talk more about night because far fewer do, and they are less easily understood.
Your paranoia (or obsession) is blinding you from actually seeing what I am trying to do when I say things. I mean what i say in the topics I give them If I say the blood elves should be removed from the horde to restore the identity of the horde and the alliance factions - i mean exactly that for restoring the identity of the two factions.
I don’t mean that this is what I always want and this is what I am trying to achieve. I couldn’t care less if they do it or do not. blizzard may not want to restore the original identities, they may want to remove them totally and do something different, if they do, I’d run with that too, if i prefer the original state, I’d say so, but that’s it,
it doesn’t meant hat every post or topic I make henceforth is with the aim of removing.
Please focus on what is being said in the now, and stop being suspicious. Usually it is suspicious people that are suspicious all the time, and often enough people who manipulate that suspect people of manipulating all the time.
I have many ideas, you just get angry and jump to conclusions. So you really didn’t like some in the past, is that why you’ve therefore just seen every suggestion as some sort of poison,
Fascinating, Is aw you lay into a suggestion that saw the blood elves expand greatly over several areas, but because it came from me, I notice how you started arguing against everything there, and then I realised, you started trying to think how I was trying to screw blood elves over… because in your head you think I am your enemy trying to screw your favourite race over because suggestions I have made in the past you have viewed as being unfavourable to blood elves…so now you’ve assume all my suggestions are.
that’s is wrong and is actually silly, no, it’s paranoid. You set yourself up against any suggestion that causes any reduction to blood elves, but because I am not afraid to make them when I think the topic or end gaol justifies it you get all offended. I am not always going to suggest great things for blood elves, not when I’m talking about improving the opposing faction and looking at options to improve the opposite elven group. some of those suggestions are going to have a negative impact on blood elves, some are not. yet you completely forget the ones that don’t have a negative impact on blood elves and go on so much about the ones that do, it is as if I only made that one suggestion, which id di not.
Yet it is unrealistic when you are writing as tory to continuously expect great fortune for the blood elves., I have supported the night elves too and seen nothing but tragedy and loss constantly, do you not think that some of my suggestions for blood elves would not have some of that for them? Do you think they should be immune from tragedy and loss? especially when their opposite number has had nothing but that throughout wow’s near 17 year release story cycle?
I am not being biased against, I have suggested bad things for night eves in the distant past, but do you know why they’ve been so few? because that is all night elves have gotten, it hardly makes sense for me to continue to write tragedy for a race that actually needs the opposite.
whereas for blood elves, sometimes i do, sometimes I don’t if I feel the topic I am discussing warrants it, but I nearly always provide them an upswing down the line, it’s not my fault you just never bother reading that far into my response to find out.
No you just saw the stick and go crazy, like a fool, not realising that sometimes, the fast way to the biggest carrot is a little bit of stick, sometimes it’s the best way, sometimes it isn’t.
Why would I have so many blood elf toons, or bother about the race if I wasn’t interested? I don’t play the horde like you play the alliance, out of slight curiosity about the “other” side, I genuinely like what I’m playing, I am just not that faction biased at all, which is why my comments on the alliance hold water, they’ve had the rougher end, I’m saying this a s a fan of both factions liking races on both sides, and i have the honesty to admit it.
I won’t change my tune because of peer pressure on forums, when the situation changes, and the evidence supports it, I will change.
You are just so obsessed with sin’dorei and so proud of them and the horde, it galls you that the alliance especially the night elves, that TBC lore set up as the main enemies of your favourite race have done better at the thing you like the most. It shouldn’t do, but it does because of obsession. Although night even, you support nightborne because they’re on the horde, but I know their superior arcane mastery galls you, you just accept it, like you accept the blue dragons’ superior mastery and the Eredar mastery, and this is how you should be accepting the kaldorei mastery - but hey, kaldorei fans around to brag about it, can’t give them the satisfaction can we, so you choose not to be honest about what you know. Pity.
Omg, dude, I’m not a developer, nor am I trying to be one. I am not here to bring up polished ideas that work smoothly, it’s not my job, nor am i trying to… This is why they aren’t perfect.
I tend to talk about the things that stir me the most, or attract me the most, and the why, and often it leads me to suggesting rudimentary concepts or ways of doing things.
It’s not my place to polish and perfect an idea, they can do a much better job, besides I really only tend to suggestion things they already have in their lore and ethos, and bringing them out more or expanding on them because these are the things I like the most or feel could do the best or really be awesome.
I play too, and have enjoyed Warcraft, I tend to come on in and type when I think -“oh, this would be really cool”, I know a lot of players it just passes by in their mind, but they would never come on here and say, and a good deal more, don’t even care enough to think about it that way. Each to their own.
You seem to be trying to control development, I see it, with the way you harp on suggestions, insisting, “what does the horde get” on threads that aren’t about the horde at all - I mean, I tell you so many times, go make your own topic if that’s what you feel.
Cat caught your tongue? No worries. Reply when you can, if you can.
There is an inherent attraction to having a tribe, and a side, “our people”, “our race”, “our faction”.
Cross faction stuff will lose this if it is not implemented with the lore. Maybe they don’t play classic anymore, or just fail to realise the attraction it holds.
You can have two distinct sides, and still have cross faction without minimising it, if done correctly. Can still have the horde and the alliance, and actually have players able to work with the opposite faction in groups, guilds and teams, without damaging the lore if provision is made in the lore for corporation too.
The distinct feeling is also helped by conflicts, so off course, you should have a facility that allows players to fight each other (pvp realm) but with reason to also, all the lore that has put the factions against each others and the races against each other. But by same measure, you must do the same for those who want to work together. There has to be sufficient reason in most races in each of the faction to desire working with someone or several races or groups in the opposite faction.
As long as these two clear lines exist, you maintain the sense of two different factions despite having corporation. Distinct faction identity was a blow to lose, but blood elves going horde ruined that, even though it was minimised in the lore by having the blood elves play a very small role in the horde affairs and having them almost never be representative of the “real” horde.
At least they understood the need for distinction. Cross realm corporation is taking this one step further too, and steps should be taken to preserve the two factions, while correctly opening the door for working together too.
I do get a sense that part of development doesn’t realise the value of having a tribe. this is one of the big assets of Warcraft world, the races are all tribes and they have a lot of distinctiveness despite their similarities, it is well executed on that front, but also a shortcoming is failure to develop these tribes, they are often left unattended and unprogressed, yet they are always the biggest talk in the lore forums, as if the devs don’t seem to understand their value - if they did, we would have had race campaigns before we had class campaigns. and if the covenants were player race based - they’d have been far more liked and appreciated (even though having new stuff is nice)
People like to belong, and in a realistic setting giving them cool races with depth allows them to pick a tribe, building its lore makes it interesting and engaging.
This reminds me about all the good times, and sometimes, not so good times in the alliance. Since WoW exists I’ve been into the Alliance, doing much pvp, and later, even pve. I won’t talk about the differences between Horde and Alliance, because every people knows them and the Blizzard was always in favor of the Horde. I want to remember all the good friends I met here, in the Alliance, even doing real life meetings and how many times I’ve laughed really hard with them, making also a really good progress, into the raids with them, just because we were not only a guild, but we were friends. Less “addons”, “elitists” and maybe, less toxicity, and WoW was really better than now. The times has passed, and more expasions have been made, and a part those friends quitted wow and the others are gone into the Horde, because “it’s better” at the moment. I really miss those magic times. Now the people around are always angry, arrogant, and always ready to insult the others, thinking to be a god, and forgetting to be humble and they go into the Horde, thinking only about themselves, only because of the progress: Mythic+ or Raids, PVP; and the Alliance was left to rot, aside. Now, If I want to join something, I must play Horde, because into the Alliance the is a desert, and that, is a thing I really can’t stand. I Really miss the old times. About the races, I can write a book, listing the things that could be changed: racials, appearing, casting animation, combat animation, about they move, or they run.
I would read your book Betzreen, so feel free to share if you can. I like long posts, and I do read them.
Equality is not sameness, two very different things. But Visna made such a broad statement when she responded to the topic I really couldn’t comment, though I’d have liked to.