MW in my guild is able to do about 1 million overall dps in m+.
Seems ok 
This is basically the best mistweaver in the world. He is not reaching 1M overall at all. Allthough he is doing quite well. I press a bit of doubt on your statement.
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/character/id/81348910?mode=detailed&zone=39&metric=dps
I can ask him to provide some data later, but we just did a NW were he ended the dungeon on 990 thousand overall, can ask him if he still got the details for the one where he broke a million dps
Holy crap. That’s so impressive.
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Ok reading your comments I have to wonder what keys your running?
See the issue is the player base, you see it now with dispells / interupts, why do you think prot pala is the meta atm the interupts they bring are to damm good not to bring, why is it good coz the other 4 members dont have to interupt so much so they can focus on other things. MW and Disc are really stong at the moment as we can do a lot of heals and do SOME dps where its much harder for say holy or resto, lets give a moment to think about all the holy palas out there Rip 
See I think the issue is were talking about two diffrent worlds here, if your running higher keys in a grp then sure dps matters or if your in 8’s and below your dps matters as you dont need to heal as much and you can pritty much face roll it now anyway. But for the most of us who live in pug land, Healers are expected to
A. Heal
B. Dispell
C. Interupt
D. CC / Ring of pease
E. Use cooldowns correctly
F. know each and every fight
G. Adapt on the fly as little timmy just leeroy jenkins 1/2 the dungon.
Fail any of the above and your in for a world of typed rage as its never there fault its ALWAYS the healers.
I could go on all the way to Z and the moment you give healers more damage than we already have you will get omfg healer your dmg sucks bro noob xD wile your juggling 20 already spinning plates. Am sorry at that point your basicly saying dont worry guys am gonna solo this +11 coz you sure as hell know little timmy is vibing at his details dps screen wile stand in goop and typing what dose Enraged regeneration do? Why have i got it? it dose no dmg.
So yes am gonna ask why the hell sould I add more things to my already overburdend to do list in M+ ???
Also TIMMY YOUR STANDING IN GOOP AGAIN!!!
Still had the details from our latest runs overall, so here you go.
was a 11 NW
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Im guessing that’s in details, not logs. Details doesn’t really give an accurate data, as it gives dps only accounting for time spent in combat, wheras logs accounts for time spent in key.
But yeah, MW sits in a somewhat good position in my opinion, I’d just give it a slight buff to their damage wheras other healers would receive a massive buff.
Managed to find the log.
That monk is great, and I’ll admit I’m impressed. I managed to find the log and I see that both you and monk(s) are performing at almost perfect levels. This is pretty much what I believe healer damage should look like, 50% of what a DPS delivers. Although I still think MW should be buffed (although just slightly), and so should sub rogue as it’s currently a bit underwhelming.
Mostly pugging 10-11s when I heal, othervise it’s 13-14s when I tank. I pug exclusively except for when I help a friend or a guildie out, but I’d estimate 95% or more of my runs are pugs.
It’s meta because of their damage, and a 10-15% nerf would be justified without a doubt. The interrupts are much appreciated in uncoordinated groups (pugs) as it can carry DPS who tunnel visions too much. Their utility is great, no doubt, but if it wasn’t stupidly powerful in terms of damage they wouldn’t be part of the meta.
Yes, MW an Disc are closest to what I believe a healer should be. The others would need either substantial buffs to damage, or to be redesigned as has been stated earlier in this thread.
Yes, healers (and everyone else) are expected to utilize their entire toolkit for the benefit of the group. Obviously healing and tanking is a much more unforgiving role than DPS in low-mid keys, as heal/tank mistakes can result in wrecked keys, and DPS mistakes simply mean that enemies die a little slower.
This request for increased healer damage doesn’t mean that we should reduce dungeon timers to compensate for it. It simply means that healers can have a greater impact and (if they choose to) actually help their group in the moments where they have literally nothing to do. If some healers still feel like afking, or taking that moment to “plan out their next move” instead of contributing, that’s okay, nothing will change for them.
Sadly, that’s an issue among the stupid players that’s most likely beyond saving, I don’t think blizzard can do anything about it. Bad players will whine and blame others for not performing among the best 5% while they’re till running with green parses at best. They’re best off being laughed at.
Found this absolute freak of a healer log tho.
That’s a windwalker, who started the key as MW and then changed spec. Check the spells used.
ah makes sense haha, that’s the danger of non English logs, easy to miss when you cant read the details 
You’re kind of missing the point, mate.
Think of it like this: right now, you have the meta, and a big issue is Aug Evoker. The extra damage and heals it allows you to do are a must for high keys, right? Blizz has made a rod for their own back because either Aug is OP or in the bin, and with how Aug works, it’s all or nothing; it’s very hard to balance it. You’re just coming at it from the other side; adding more damage to healers makes them just as bad, as their role becomes more of a jack of all trades, and balancing them becomes a nightmare.
And thats kinda my point right there, give healers more dps and so the mind set becomes healers MUST do X dps otherwise there just bad so not only have I now goto do everything I did before I now need to forfill this community law that says all healers MUST do x amount of dps as well. You’re already arguing over who can do 900k DPS. How long before that becomes the standard?
I agree, but the truth is, as I have already said, if you give healers a stick, people will beat you to death with it. What started out as a nice bonus or flavour just became mandatory. It’s better to have tanks, healers, and DPS. If you want to do both, playing Aug is a support class. I am a MW. I can do Mistweaving or Fistweaving, but my primary function is to heal; the DPS is just a bonus. The moment you make it a bigger deal, the more people will demand it.
I believe we just have different wishes for how we play our healers.
I agree that the big issue with aug is that it’s either useless or meta (given that players know how to play). A better design for it would be to reduce the damage it bring and instead increase the defense it brings. That way people can bring aug to survive rather than maximizing damage. It’s also an issue that it is the only spec of it’s kind. If there were 4 more support specs available to other classes it wouldn’t be the same problem as you could pick and choose between supports instead of only having one option.
I’m not asking for just one healers damage to be increased, I’m asking for all of them, therefore healers would remain on equal footing. Yes it’s a bit more to balance, and maybe even redesign, but it’s not like it’s a tremendous task nor unworthy of doing.
Well, sure. I can see how bad players would hold healers to high expectations without considering the extra load they put on the healer. I’ll agree that it could be an issue in keys in the weekly vault range, although there everything falls over and you’ll ++ a run even with green parsing damage so I don’t consider than an issue. It’s just gonna be people acting elitist while they themselves still run around clueless, I’ll just keep laughing at their foolishness.
What your saying is also class depensant.
Ok lets say your a pally woth a 2 handed intel weap everyones full so you run in.
Bammm a cleave hits you and kills you off.
Whos gnna heal when your pushing up daisies 
Its the healers job to heal and only heal.
You dont see tanks saying its ok ill heal cos i got first aid.
Jokes aside though im a fan of ppl trying new stuff.
However whats gnna happen here is your gnna end up with hybrid type roles wich cannot effectivly do either properly.
Its better that tanks and healers stay in their own roles bc thsts how the game is designed.
Isn’t the idea of the paladin and mistweaver to run in anyway? They are melee healers.
(paladin should use a 1 hander + shield though, but that is besides the topic)
That means melee DPS are perma-dead in dungeons, as they also fight in melee. Or maybe its just the really bad healers and DPS that dies to frontals? I’m willing to bet it’s the latter.
This is just a stupid oversimplification that I’ve adressed earlier in the post but I’ll use the same logic on you.
If that is true, that should also imply that it’s the tanks job to tank and only tank, and DPS job to deal damage and only deal damage.
That in turn implies:
- It’s nobodys job to use interrupts.
- It’s nobodys job to use any kind of cc.
- It’s nobodys job to use defensives (healers should heal it).
- Tanks only have to deal enough damage to keep agro (somewhere around 300k overall if we’re looking on details).
- It’s nobodys job to dispel anything (or is that included in healing, and it’s only the healers job to dispel everything?
As you can see, this would be an absolute nightmare of a dungeon to be a part of, and thus everyone has and should have multiple responsibilities to help the group clear the content as effectively as possible.
Not necessarily, tanks are already designed like this, although they focus on taking hits and dealing 50% of DPS damage, whereas healer design would be focused on healing the group and dealing 50% of DPS damage. The gameplay is already there for the people that want to contribute as much as possible, I’m just asking for numbers to be tweaked.
By that logic no changes should ever have been made in the history of the game, because that’s how the game is designed.
I understand. I think their changes to healing with DF were exactly with this reason in mind. And I must admit, my healing feeling all wet noodly on my hpriest in DF wasn’t very fun to me, even if I understood it creates more healing busywork, and therefore less dps requirements because most of the time you’ll be struggling with filling the healthbars lol. I’m not sure what the answer is here.
I think the issue may be it’s subjective what makes healing fun exactly. What one player may find comfortable and pleasant, another will think faceroll and boring. And where one player will feel properly challenged and engaged, another will say it is too difficult and unfun. And round we go, and no solution Blizzard will come up with will please everyone.
I strongly disagree, wows community as this way of setting arbitrary dps goals now as it is good or bad players it really dosnt matter there views are the same. Add healers to the mix its just commen sence that if a healer CAN do 900k dps they must do 900k dps and before you know it, theres some guy doing a youtube guide on how all healers can reach 900k and there you have it every key you have to do 900k
See my issue is workload, healing is already a pain due to blizz and there wonderful ideas on balance, now after meny hits with the nerf bat most M+ dungons are ok if your group is good or your a meta comp, but in S2 where we are all weak again and people dont remember or cba to do mechanics and healing is back to playing wack a mole with health bars. But now i also have to hit 900k…
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While this may be a “optional until XXXX rating” people wont take it that way.
You can also play whatever spec until a level where top players only reach… However, we see the player base declining a holy priest in lower keys because “Why not disc??”
If it becomes the new norm to do 500k dps (random number) in a +10, a big chunk of the player base will expect this from all their healers regardless of how possible it is to complete without it.
M+ this season has already been horrendous for healers, and increasing their dps ceiling will just add yet another factor for PUGS to shame and blame
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I believe we just enjoy different aspects of healing. If I understand you correctly you enjoy healing and only healing, and would appreciate if it was slower than it currently is. You don’t mind having downtime, you welcome it, as it gives you room to breath.
I on the other hand enjoy not only healing, but also optimizing damage, and absolutely loathe downtime. I believe I currently feel what most melee DPS are going to feel during the intermission of first boss in The Rookery next season, where only ranged will be able to attack. It’s okay, we like different things, but I feel like that’s why our desires for the healer role clashes.
But this is a problem that doesn’t originate from poor balance, it originates from the foolish idea that you need to play the same comps as the top 0.1% to complete a measly +10 key. It’s a problem derived from all the information available on how to min-max, and the culture that players have developed over time. It is not because of spec viability.
I believe addons like WoWopIO will solve that eventually anyway, as that allows us to judge a player by their performance, rather than their class/spec and m+ rating. Nobody will bring the meta healer with green parses instead of the off-meta healer with purple/pink parses.
I strongly disagree, but I feel as if people have been spoiled with seasons like s2, s3, and s4 of DF where +20 (+10 for s4) keys were among the easiest they’ve ever been.
It’s alright if someone finds their limit in a +8, not everyone has to do the most challenging content out there.
Then there should already be an expectation of healers doing a bare minimum of 300k dps overall today, but I’m yet to see anyone complain about healers not doing enough dps during an m+ run.
No as a MW I can do both and part of why i like the class is I can play the way I enjoy the most, dont misunderstand I like being a damage based healer, I have no issues with that side of it at all. My issue is when other people FORCE me to do one or the other.
I understand the issues around downtime, I do. Thats NOT my issue, my issue is when OTHER PEOPLE tell me I NEED to do X amount of dmg on top of what i already do and am some how bad due to the fact I dont hit some arbitrary dps goal that the community say I must hit.
Thnk of it like this right, Your making a pie, a pie you like. Then you get some random person telling you that your pie sucks coz ALL pies need to be meat and potato and now your pie sucks even more coz the amount of potato is wrong. You would tell that random guy to go away so I can just enjoy my god damm pie… fyi I want pie now THANKS 
Thats my issue am a healer not a dps or a aug a healer. Don’t start adding extra stuff to my pie man!!! 