That’s like saying you can also nerf Mythic Raiding by 50% (nerfing by 100% means that you reduce everything to zero, btw).
You want a challenge? Go with half the amount of players into Mythic raiding. Or go there without any gear equipped.
Quite literally the same thing.
I think its mostly for alts or a safety net for “weekly chore keys”.
I pressume that archieve will be account bound so its nice to have an unbreakable key when you just want to do your weekly chill +10 for vault on 7th alt.
But you are getting max level rewards earlier than high keys.
Almost a good comparison. WoD challenge mode capped your gear, so that it didn’t matter at all. M+ doesn’t do that.
Thankfully, nothing is behind any “gate”. Just need to run +10 for Mythic track item in vault.
But still ignoring the group of players whom are asking for it the most and have the most frustrations, surely ?
Instead why not have it as an incremental safety net.
Time all keys at +4 and you cannot deplete below +4, time all at +7 and cannot deplete below +7, time all at +9 and so on.
That way people have little microsteps and achievements to aim for.
Could be something. But it may also create more “dead keys” for players who are hicking up against the next milestone.
Say that having done all dungeons on +7 prevents you from being depleted to +6s. I count on that this will be account-bound. Then +6s will be very difficult to pug, more than they already are, as players don’t naturally deplete to that level anymore.
We see, currently, already similar behavior when listing 9s. Quite a bit harder than 7s, 8s, or 10s to fill. Just because there is zero reason to do a +9 compared to a +8 or +10.
While i probably support your suggested system, and i also do not get the change blizzard want to make; i very much think the problem is more on the higher keys than on the lower (+2-9) ones. Downgrading a low key is less punishing than a high one.
At this stage in the season yes I’m inclined to agree.
Earlier on (and I’m not just referencing the first week or two, but the first month or more easily) keys at and above 6 were extremely frustrating.
Even for myself on my main, to the point I began excluding people out of groups based on class, specs, whether they had a rating in seasons gone by.
This is the first season in which I have not aimed for decent rating and just meh left it.
So in this regards it could well help reduce this kind of behaviour and feeling of being punished for other peoples mistakes.
Why were +6 (and a bit up) frustrating? I mean; everyone here or there untimes a key sometimes, but those keys downgrade and then 1 key level lower gets +2’ed immediately.
How is that the same thing in any way?
Mythic raiding is a fixed difficulty, it is what it is and you can either beat it or you can’t.
Mythic plus has infinite scaling, so you can make it as hard or easy as you please, by using the right key level.
Not the same at all and IMHO, a poor comparison.
So gating behind high keys then, as I stated.
It is relative difficulty. It doesn’t matter how you achieve it.
Face it, just because you slap “infinitely scaling” on something, it doesn’t mean that you can then start it off from world quest difficulty.
I understand that this is a platform for discussion, but you still need to give an actual legitimate reason, why the current scaling and current reward system isn’t fair or sustainable.
Saying “well, player participation has dropped” is not the cause, it is a symptom of something that should be fixed.
Gate Keeping is the new buzzword of TWW. You don’t like something? That’s Gate Keeping bro, stop being a Gate Keeper.
Fine, let’s stop Gate Keeping. You can get 6/6 Myth track items from non-elite world mobs and world quests.
What did you fix with this?
Mythic Raiding is not a relative difficulty, giving yourself a disadvantage is not the same as giving yourself the best shot you can, while choosing to make the game harder. This is a comparison between choosing between “Easy, Normal and Hard” vs playing one handed or something. The result might be the same, but the process is certainly different.
+2 keys aren’t that much harder than regular dungeons, so the scale is wide enough really.
The current reward system isn’t sustainable because regardless of how fair I or anyone else who enjoys m+ may think it is, the playerbase doesn’t as shown by the reduced participation.
Since people who enjoy high keys will enjoy them for rating, and the thrill of beating a very difficult challenge, it’s irrelevant to them whether gear comes from +6 or +14.
Blizzard understood in this in the past by giving good loot at +16, and portals at +20.
Should they do this now? I don’t know, but they need to do something.
Right. That’s not a legitimate argument. Again, you assume that participation is down due to the reward structure. I yet to see any evidence to confirm that.
Okay. But that’s not an argument for changing the rewards. If anything, you want to cap the gear they can use on high keys so that the playing field is as level and competitive as possible.
Today’s +10 is far easier than +16 in DF. That is because of the affixes.
Nah son I hope you take a vacation to the face for this.
This comparison isn’t normal or healthy, even as a ha ha edgy this is waaaay over the line considering what Epstein’s history is.
Do better man.
There are a number of reasons for reduced participation, and it does not neccessarily stem from the rewards placed too high.
You have to take into account that with the current reward structure you can choose between going through the gear progression curve in M+, or choose the more convenient optionbof progressing through Delves. The fact that you are not restricted by time on top of getting rewarded better than more than half the key levels there is progression for just highlights it to players that there is an alternative that is more easily accessible.
That in itself is a more likely contributor to the lower participation than loot locked to 10s. Not only that, but if you geared up from Delves you will have to push through 6 key levels until you start getting rewarded again in terms of gear progression. As a lot of people are driven by loot this means that participation in M+ will sharply drop, as the barrier of entry became bigger, on top of the mode taking away a lot of players as a result as well.
But this is a price to pay when you do not have loot separated into its own ecosystem. Raid participation went on a sharp decline after M+ got introduced, and now the same will happen with the M+ playerbase to an extent as Delves will siphon players away from doing that content.
The entire concept of M+ is such that any group that is not made up from people who value their relationship more than the outcome of the run, are always likely to get into a huge blame game.
Raids can also get into blame games, but you do not have to restart the raid each time something goes wrong enough.
Why? It is difficult challenging content. You need to play very well for ~30 minutes. Mistakes were made. There’s no reason to go on a ‘blame-game’.
Too many people go out of their way to try to have a successful run and become really upset if it goes anything other than successful.
I believe the way it is designed is flawed for anything that is outside a tournament.
Bliz can only make a game for the playerbase they have, not the playerbase they wished they had.
It’s up to Bliz to design the game so that it works for the vast majority of their players.
If players are choosing not to tank and heal then Bliz can tweak the game to encourage more players into tanking and healing.
Also they could try to nudge players into Vote / Kick less often.
Bliz can’t really changes the players, they can only change their game. The game can influence player behaviour a certain amount but can’t utterly change them into new people.
Yes sir, I might as well do that to avoid further brain damage.
that seems to be the only way these days