Ion Hazzikostas on Mythic+'s Problems in The War Within - PC Gamer Interview

[Daveyoyo-thunderstrike]

M+ purpose was to keep up the subs by providing to even the casuals mythic quality gear …
Wasn’t Df that a +8 was giving mythic track gear ?? and the 6 was giving aspect crests ???
I still remember doing +15 with 5+ alts since Legion and obtaining mythic gear while aoeing everything at that range …and everyone was happy …

This is the purpose of Mythic+(provide easy gear and that’s why you see everyone run +8 and only 10 for weekly despite they are 636-8 ilvl ) (It’s quite funny seeing someone in 637 ilvl and the highest m+ is 1 11 completed and the rest are 10)

Right now the m+ is hard and the people that were aoeing everything hit a wall … A huge nerf inc so everyone can roflstomp everything .

[Uda-uldum]

@Alythena-ravencrest

This is true, rsham could do dmg aswell but its impossible when have to spam heal on ppl face tanking dmg and every CD in general in the game. I find disc more boring than holy also so cant enjoy just spamming shields and penance for too long either. The melee mw felt unfair when they didnt have to cast anything nor ever run out mana and were like second dps, made really unfair playfield for any other healers that have to cast, to face them.

Its not just Rshaman. Its HPriest, PEvoker, HPala and RDruid that have the same problem. PEvoker gets a small pass because most of his DPS comes from 1 spell with a 30s CD that he can cast at the beginning of the pull.

Why I dont get is why they havent seen this in DF and implemented it already in TWW… Because its a problem that has been lagging for a long time.

And there are multiple cool things you can do. And you dont need to give every spec free DPS. You can do really cool things unique to each spec.

But generally the concept for any solution is this:

• MW and DPriest damage to heal.
• All others heal to damage.

How? A small list:

• A lazy and basic after X conditions are met (some CD or something) X% of your healing transforms to damage to enemies.
• PEvoker style of 1 spell every 30s that absolutely trucks. Like what Stormcaller used to be for RShaman.
• Buff healing spell performance, but also significantly increase mana consuption but make damage a mechanism that recovers mana to compensate. Which is the RDruid mechanic.
• Healing gives you instant cast off GCD damage. Damage gives you off GCD healing…
• Lower down cooldown of minor CDs with damage…

ECT…

Those are some things off the top of my head. And I am not a dev to be honest. What baffles me is that Blizzard devs have NOT come up with ANYTHING in almost 3 years…

[Tsjoh-argent-dawn (Tsjoh)]

I honestly dont give a duck about my damage output as healer. Not even sure why i would care.

[Uda-uldum]

@Tsjoh-argent-dawn

I honestly dont give a duck about my damage output as healer. Not even sure why i would care.

That is also a solution. No healer does damage at all. So nerf DPriest and MW monk.

But as long as DPriest and MW monk exist and can heal while doing obsene damage there is an imbalance that will never be solved.

But in general people like to DD while healing with those 2 specs. So the only solution is to buff the rest of the healers as well.

[Tsjoh-argent-dawn (Tsjoh)]

I mean, on my mistweaver i also am not able to hit 5% of a group damage output, even if i try. So why would i care. All the healers do abi-small amounts of the total damage of the group. Does it really matter if it is 2% or 4% ?

[Uda-uldum]

@Tsjoh-argent-dawn

I mean, on my mistweaver i also am not able to hit 5% of a group damage output, even if i try. So why would i care. All the healers do abi-small amounts of the total damage of the group. Does it really matter if it is 2% or 4% ?

It does:

@Uda-uldum

People will log into Raider IO, see that all groups are composed of the same specs and conclude that “PPaly is the best tank under ALL circumstances”. Including a +10.

Let me change “PPally is the best tank” for “MW is the best healer” and you get the jist.

[Tsjoh-argent-dawn (Tsjoh)]

I am not following.

By they way; it is very possible brew is better on +10 than pala since pala dies to every tankbuster from +7 without any defensive. Brew is just joloing first boss Dawnbreaker on +10 without anything up. It is just staggered.

People are alllowed to read on raiderio what they want. Usually it is nonsense.

[Uda-uldum]

@Tsjoh-argent-dawn

I am not following.

By they way; it is very possible brew is better on +10 than pala since pala dies to every tankbuster from +7 without any defensive. Brew is just joloing first boss Dawnbreaker on +10 without anything up. It is just staggered.

People are alllowed to read on raiderio what they want. Usually it is nonsense.

The answer to your question is here:

@Uda-uldum

And lets be realistic here. Its one of the few things Ian said that I agree with: Its a matter of perception.

@Uda-uldum

we dont get to choose or change how people see things. And I am tired of pretending otherwise.

That is the “meta perception”. It IS nonenesense as you say. But that is not what people beleive.

And seccond the power of the meta itself :

@Uda-uldum

Sure. You can do a +10 with any comp. But what would happen if you did it with the meta comp?

Would you 3 chest the same +10 you would only +1 otherwise? Because if THAT is the case, its is 100% normal people want the meta. Because in a Pug environment when things go wrong… a 3 chest with a meta comp would turn into timing the key. HOEVER, a +1 with a non-meta comp would turn into a deplete.

Same applies to your monk and healer DPS in general.

And finally, back to healer DPS:

This high damage meta exists because in SL all healers were complaining that “we need to DD and its not healing”. So blizzard said: Oh… so you wanna heal? Here! Heal THIS !

So if we want healing to be less stressfull, by defenition we need to nerf the damage down a bit. But if we do that… what else would you give to the party ?

So if I had to trade healing a bit less for focusing a bit more DD… I would consider that a good trade-off.

But to do that, all healers need to be balanced DPS wise.

[Alythena-ravencrest]

@Tsjoh-argent-dawn

I honestly dont give a duck about my damage output as healer. Not even sure why i would care.

Well, all the aquatic animals aside it just is by design that healers are doing more than just stand back and heal in general. They are suppose to cc, kick, heal, dmg and use utility correctly in this game I guess both pve and pvp. Healer is arguably the most tasking and multitask heavy role in the game, when they are in general tuned and designed well its also the reason why I like playing them.

[Tsjoh-argent-dawn (Tsjoh)]

Why do people go into such extremes as

@Alythena-ravencrest

Well, all the aquatic animals aside it just is by design that healers are doing more than just stand back and heal in general

???
Like where did i say anything close to this?

I can do this too you know. You want to be top DPS as healer because it is fun. That is why you play healer. To top the dps charts.

[Uda-uldum]

@Tsjoh-argent-dawn

???
Like where did i say anything close to this?

He is agreeing with you.

[Tsjoh-argent-dawn (Tsjoh)]

I dont think so. But in that case my apologies. But i do not get the message then.
Everyone needs to do all of that. No matter the role.

[Alythena-ravencrest]

@Tsjoh-argent-dawn

@Alythena-ravencrest

Well, all the aquatic animals aside it just is by design that healers are doing more than just stand back and heal in general

???
Like where did i say anything close to this?

You said that you dont care about healers dmg output. I think healers dmg output is what makes game fun as healer and part of wow modern class design in general. They just need to balance it better that all healers bring either equal amount of dmg and heal or their healing have to be so massive that the lack of dmg doesnt matter if they are designed as passive type of healer.

[Uda-uldum]

@Alythena-ravencrest

I think healers dmg output is what makes game fun as healer and part of wow modern class design in general.

I agree with this statement.

Low keys you focus on passing the HPS checks. And in higher keys when you got the HPS checks ironed out optimizing DPS is an optional, and fun, way to add extra complexity.

But it simply cannot be done with some specs. Only with MW and DPriest.

[Tsjoh-argent-dawn (Tsjoh)]

Damage to me is literally the last thing as healer that makes my healer life fun

[Tsjoh-argent-dawn (Tsjoh)]

@Uda-uldum

But it simply cannot be done with some specs. Only with MW and DPriest.

Even those aren’t doing significant damage.

[Alythena-ravencrest]

@Tsjoh-argent-dawn

Damage to me is literally the last thing as healer that makes my healer life fun

Oh, wouldnt the traditional caster mw or rdruid be better then? Rsham were always this hybrid type that bring dmg and heal and alot utility

But anyway Im not trying tell you what you should play, I like hpri, rdruid and rsham myself and rdruid is this passive type healer which I used to play that mostly just cc and heal. In current season I cant play anything else than disc. Its bit meh the state of game.

[Tsjoh-argent-dawn (Tsjoh)]

I am perfectly fine having tons of fun on most healers except resto druid

[Uda-uldum]

@Tsjoh-argent-dawn

Even those aren’t doing significant damage.

https://mythicstats.com/dps

MW monks doing 350k DPS average. Enh do an average of 1.8M. That is 20% of 1 DD.

Compared to a mid-tier damage DD (Fury Wariror, 1.4M) that is 25%.

Not that insignificant.

RShamans are 10% and 13% in the same examples above. And RDruids 7% and 10%.

The thing is that in lower keys, DPS do more damage than required. So if you lack DPS, if DDs L2P better its more effective than a healer DPS. And also, a healer contribution is not enough to compensate for 1 DD slacking.

But in higher keys (+12 and above) having 20% of a DPS does matter. In the context of the whole party that is like giving a “buff” to the DDs of +5% to +10% DPS. Its more impactfull that ANY raid buff you could apply.

So basically. The fact that you can time keys out healer DPS dosent mean its not impactfull.

The problem is that MW and DPriest can pull off that DPS with out perfect coordination. If I want to dish out the DPS in that link I have to know 100% certain that the next 5 globals nobody will die. And that is simply not possible with out pro-level coordination.

Like… there is 1 person at 70%. What do you do? Top him up or DPS? Well if i dont know if they will kick perfectly, I take no chances. I top him up. Otherwise, that player can be 1-shot if a kick is not done.

A coordinated group knows 100% for certain that kicks will be done. So you can leave 1 dude at 70% and do some DPS.

That is the RShaman experience.

[Mirlin-turalyon]

I tell what the problem is retail is 90% single player 10%encounter people only for 1% of that being a good experience.

I see people on classic all time so im guessing people just switched.
EDIT: Also these companies panic if people were leaving the game, they are taking their sweet time is because they know we are still here just not on retail.