Ion Hazzikostas on Mythic+'s Problems in The War Within - PC Gamer Interview

https://mythicstats.com/dps

MW monks doing 350k DPS average. Enh do an average of 1.8M. That is 20% of 1 DD.

Compared to a mid-tier damage DD (Fury Wariror, 1.4M) that is 25%.

Not that insignificant.

RShamans are 10% and 13% in the same examples above. And RDruids 7% and 10%.

The thing is that in lower keys, DPS do more damage than required. So if you lack DPS, if DDs L2P better its more effective than a healer DPS. And also, a healer contribution is not enough to compensate for 1 DD slacking.

But in higher keys (+12 and above) having 20% of a DPS does matter. In the context of the whole party that is like giving a “buff” to the DDs of +5% to +10% DPS. Its more impactfull that ANY raid buff you could apply.

So basically. The fact that you can time keys out healer DPS dosent mean its not impactfull.

The problem is that MW and DPriest can pull off that DPS with out perfect coordination. If I want to dish out the DPS in that link I have to know 100% certain that the next 5 globals nobody will die. And that is simply not possible with out pro-level coordination.

Like… there is 1 person at 70%. What do you do? Top him up or DPS? Well if i dont know if they will kick perfectly, I take no chances. I top him up. Otherwise, that player can be 1-shot if a kick is not done.

A coordinated group knows 100% for certain that kicks will be done. So you can leave 1 dude at 70% and do some DPS.

That is the RShaman experience.

I tell what the problem is retail is 90% single player 10%encounter people only for 1% of that being a good experience.

I see people on classic all time so im guessing people just switched.
EDIT: Also these companies panic if people were leaving the game, they are taking their sweet time is because they know we are still here just not on retail.

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Why was it necessary to remove the old scaling system, and implement a new one that is totally broken? The only problem we have atm is that they will not accept the new scaling was a mistake.

What old scaling?

btw we totally forgot on top of best dmg/hps 2 def externals and PI Dpriest can exploit Mind Control in 2 of 8 dungeons and make them alot easier(doable)…And ofc Blizzard do nothing about this

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In the end you get to like 5% of a group with 3 dps and a tank. And that dps of the monk is padding aoe because of crackling jade lightning.
I just checked warcraftlogs and i am on like 250k. I really do not give a damn about that 100k difference which is on the 6-7M damage the group really insignificant. I am not hanging in the curtains healer dps is not balanced.
I have my interrupt :grin:

If you compare yourself to group DPS, 1 DPS does not do 100%. You have to compare yourself to individual DPS to get meaningfull impact. Usually, its best to do it as I did: How much of a fraction of 1 DPS are you ?

Simply put. You are 1 individual comparing yourself to 4 people. OF COURSE you will do little DPS. If you compare 1 DPS vs 4 people he will ALSO do little DPS.

To prove my point: an Enh shaman, being OP DD meta spec dosent do 100% of the DPS. It’s maybe responsible for 30% or something like that (havent done the exact math, but you get the point).

I like that math. Simply because you did those 250k by just doing your normal healing rotation. No extra effort and you did that.

If I were to play like that with my RShaman my contribution would be 0k DPS. And in order to produce 250k of DPS I have to risk a lot by not toping people up. Or be extreemly lucky with the party I have and get 4 people that play absolutely perfect and I dont have to heal. Which is unlikely.

See the difference now? :slight_smile:

I AM a resto shaman too :grin:

Then you know the difference between a MW and a RShaman. :slight_smile: Why should I have to explain these things? :smiley:

I am doing those 250k damage by doing my normal healing and here or there a lava surge. You do on packs 200k dps just by healing rain.

If i ‘blast’ without healing i also do 650k damage.

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Absolutely. But will you? How many situations did you find that you could just sit there for 20s spamming chain lightning ? :smiley:

A monk and a DPriest have one of those every 30s or so. Guaranteed. Its part of their healing rotation ! :smiley:

That is the difference.

Not that often of course. But does it really matter we do 250k or 350k on 6.5M damage total of the group?

Dpriests can pull 700-800k…so ye it does matter.And thats without PI value on whoever they use it

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In the case of DPriest and MW monk they contribute 15% to the total. Its not that “small” anymore.

But it depends on the context. Does it mater in low keys? NO. Does it matter in a +12 and above? YES absolutely.

In lower keys you want to focus on HPS because the general quality of players is lower and healers have to compensate for mistakes.

That is a boss that takes 15% less time to die. So a 3 min boss to a 2.5 min boss. So 30s less of a boss fight.

And what I mean with “it dosent matter in lower keys” is that if DDs do their job, bosses last for 1 minute. And 15% less of that is what? 10s? Nothing. But will DDs in low keys perform optimally? NO. The boss will still last for 3 min. And if you can make it last 30s less well… its only good news.

But in that case, if DDs put X extra effort, that will have more impact on the boss than the same X effort a healer puts (DD wise). And that is why its simply more efficient for DDs to L2P and kill that boss in 1 minute.

And that is why healer effort is not that impactfull in lower keys.

Ok. Let just go into logs for science; The top log is Ara kara +20.
He almost does 500k dps on 9.7M dps total = 5.15% of the total group.
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/XT1KFp7kMQ9VgrRc?fight=1&type=damage-done

Shaman Ara Kara 19 which is can find.
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/gamZTfBNXnc2LFJt?fight=3&type=damage-done
Resto shaman; 225k on 9.1M total = ~2.47% of the total group.

So the difference is about 2.7% of a total group damage for the healer in favor of the disc priest. And this is for professional level.

I am not getting mad. Yes it is a difference.

They do not do 15% contribution.
Like i said in my first post. We do not even get to 5% of group contribution. OK the disc barely makes it.

Its huge diff,as i said you dont even put the value of the PI which with proper timing is insane

Accoding to your data no they dont.

But a “normal DD” group that are not professional people dont do 9.7M DPS either.

Also this:

Some of that 9.7M belongs to the DPriest. Which you havent accounted for. :slight_smile:

I think PI and other externals is a different discussion. But it would be nice when also that number would be scienced instead of just calling it “insane”.

I literally got the top log i could find of ara kara and the top log of a resto shaman of the same dungeon. It is not my data.

But N is 1 is a bit crappy for science. So take number 2 resto shaman;

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/CpmBbZcxWtwgnJ9X?fight=1&type=damage-done
320k already. We get closer in numbers.

I am really searching but higher than 511k for disc i havent found yet.

And in that normal group the healer is also significantly worse and does not have a performance in the 99.9th percentile…

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