Is Gogogo culture truly Blizzard´s fault?

Community General Discussion
82

Not true.

Thats just the pug system, ur grouping with players u dont know, will likely never play with again on repeat, im sorry, but continous engagement with the pug enviroment has never been a recommended way of play.

In guild groups, premades and among friends its a very different game…

You act as if m+ isnt vastly easier with communication, just because we have aged past the time where using ingame typing is the method of communication doesnt mean its not there.

The issue is some are stuck in the past. Its 2022, why type to each other, u depersonalise a situation entirely via doing this.

Voice is soo much more personal, and is where real friendship is built, people tend to be more sincere when they arent just a battle tag on a screen.

Normal and heroic dungeons are perfectly rewarded for what they are. You just ignore the big attraction.

Power fantasy, people like to be super strong and take on the world, thats the point of verticle progression.

You want them to fix a pug enviroment, and thats the issue, there is no fix to the pug enviroment. You are just a tool there, because even if u sit there and chatter and have a laugh, thats all its going to be, those people have no interest in progressing with you because if they were interested in progressing with a static team they wouldnt be in ur group.

You remenber how when rhe new generation got phones where their parents didnt have all this social media etc etc that their kids now had.

And how they would be like "oh its so bad for you, when i was young id go out and have a real comversation by knocking on the doors blanblahblah’

Well the 2004 WoW generation have basically become them.when classic dropped the amount of u had posts upon posts proclaiming discord was evil and destroying the classic experience.

You have this audience. Who cling to the Old ways for dear life and then blame the game for the loss of social interactions.

Todays groups are talked on via discord. Even pugs these days embrace voice chat, via temporary invites into discord channels.

Todays guilds have discords.

Todays communities for everything are done yhrough discord. There are discords for pugs even lol.

The social aspects are still very much there, people just need to remember its 2022 and modernise how they play.

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83

Oh didn’t you know that tanks always have to be 200 yards infront of the group or their heads will implode irl!?

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84

I’d put it down to an age thing. I mean, surely that’s why they are called zoomers right?

85

As a player that started in Vanilla, I can say this about guilds and friends lists: seen that, done that, it’s not for me.

  • RL friends; only had one that was playing WoW and introduced me to the game.
    Our friendship doesn’t exist anymore.
    Ironically the game lasted more than our friendship.
  • Guilds: was a officer and GM of this guild, back in Vanilla. My conclusion: players are only loyal to the purple colour on their screens. Had players constantly leaving the guild for other ones. On this one, on the third one as well. The second guild disbanded because people kept arguing due to lack of progression.
    Drama, drama, drama, always. I had enough of that.
    Friend for life ? More like friends until they disappear one day because they stopped logging in. Or change guild.

I understand you need voice chat to coordinate a raid or a Mithic run.
Now are people seriously advocating to use voice chat to run 1 normal dungeon ?
I hope not.

I honestly don’t care for: achievements, KSM, etc.
I skipped SL, because I wasn’t interested at all in that expansion.
Spent 2 years using the SL event weapons.
I don’t care for purple gear or levels.
Ironically I had more fun on my level capped 20 characters while being unsubscribed. Also people can act decently in pugs. Had 0 complains in all the Dungeons runs I had in TBC dungeons on my 4 level 20 characters. While I was farming socketed gear.

It seems this type of behaviour is only prevalent above level 60-70.
New expansion level.

For me it’s clear that each dungeon should only be run if my character has the quest for it. Otherwise avoid it.

Cheers.

86

It has nothing to do with M+. If you played the game before M+ existed then you will probably remember people speeding through dungeons back then too.

The thing is the difficulty. Cata proved that you can’t have any kind of difficulty in combination with random dungeon finder or it ends in disaster half the time. This is just a consequence of having dungeons available to everyone through a queuing system.

If people don’t enjoy the dungeon because it is too easy then they will just blast through it as quickly as possible to get the reward and be done with it.

Ironically, M+ opening will probably solve this problem for the people currently complaining about it. The people that want more difficult content will move on to M+ and HCs will be left mostly to the more casual players again.

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87

Im just gonna say that all i had back then kids today have know too. We had voice communica<tions in games and did it all on voice because playing fast paced UT does not give time to ype and when we went to knock people doors we had a smartphone with camera ofr that time which worked on Symbian where we could install software which today are called apps. Its not so different of what is now in any case. Software was just more simple and not as easy to install to devcices like its now.

We argue that voice communication destroyes the Classic experience and well it does and does not. I mean back when it was current retail it was mostly about chat where we could all be equal. Gender did not matter due chat not showing gender and accents did not reveal nationalities while we did know that one mus´t be from GB if the person did write english in non proper manner but in sort of slang. It was also easier for socially awkward people like me and many otheer who played games to get in to new games community. It was easier to type and think that try to stutter some stupid words that did not make any sense since we were too scared to speak properly. You know that hardship in life, losing trust to people and all that can lead to that point but typing in text was really a way to communicate properly with proper words people could understand.

Voice takes this type away from classic where we old are still clinging to text chat in stupid nostalgia while new generation is also as stubborn and are clingin in todays stupid voice. Both leave a gap between them.

Also using voice or having and intrusive voice open on guild all the time really takes away the atmosphere and takes away constructed character on roleplay where we all keep our own cwn voices. Its like audio book vs traditionaql book where the tone of storyteller in audio book tends to make the scene where the traditional book is where imagination on your head makes the scene.

Still the voice does not ruyin the classic experience as is, but it does make it harder for people to get to talk with random peopåle. while the voice is all and well within people we know like guildies, net or physical life friends its really not working on randomn encounters. When people are in set voice channels and tune out of the bothersome text chat, nobody can reach them in random encounters anywhere. Youi cant know in which voice is the player that just appeared to help you and you cant initiate in making friends when you and thsi other player do have voice, but they are on different channels and even trying to reach out by whisper or anything like that never seems to work since people are too busy in their guild chats. Voice does not ruin the experience in any game in closed circles, but it does make it extremely hard to talk tro people outside of those bubbles.

This is why i rather use text as a communbication in these games. I do have that voice in many different platforms including disco, but i have never managed to make any new friends with that way since theres often so much chatter in guild channels its must to turn it off to get the games atrmosphere and sink in to the role i play, to be in character. These days i use voice just like in the very beginning of my gaming career, as a communication between friends when we do something that requires coordination or just to talk like in EvE when we do a ming night between friends, but other than that i still use text to make friends because that always seems to work best.

See its like people who are of different generation think they are so different from each other but like the communication, its not about what platform we use. Back at the very beginning it could even be an good, traditional ham radio or conference call by phone when we played some frirs diablo network games and then came new platforms and still the communication in those wors the same way. People either talk or type to each other. Its meaningless whether its called a line telephone or discord.

Im not even sure why you are talking to me about voice as if im against it. I dont remember saying something against voice anywhere even while im against overuse of voice because it tends to put walls between people in game where voice users are in different bubbles no matter the platform and we also need to take in account that some of us use steam, some use bnet, some use skype, some use discord. Theres too many platform to communicate properly with voice where as text chat channels are game and zone wide or say only works on certain distance but they all use the same channels so people are having easier time to connect with each other. Time for using voice comes later in content needing cooperation and professionalism to do well.

88

The guilds I was in in TBC/WotLK used Teamspeak/Ventrillo. It was mandatory for raiding and we often just hung out in the voice channels outside of raids.
Discord is now the go to app, but voice chat was used back then just like today. The only difference was that you needed a separate forum, while it´s now conveniently all in Discord.

And just like today you had people who weren´t comfortable to talk/had no mic or whatever and chatty people. No difference.
Maybe it wasn´t so popular in non raiding social/levelling guilds because it wasn´t free like Discord.

Also about speedrunning:
We used to speedrun daily hcs in TBC and wrath all the time. The only difference was that it were guild groups, people who knew each other and if someone messed up and caused a wipe. Then it wasn´t a big deal, you had a laugh and go again.
And since mythic and m+ didn´t exist, we did our daily and that was it.
Pugging was done while leveling alts and it was just as toxic pre LFD as it is today. People got kicked from pug groups for not doing enough dps all the time. Gear score was a thing too.

Going with a group of friends or guildies will always be the best way.

89

I would say its 50/50

Introduction of Mythic+ with putting a timer on things, less gear dropping overall and rely more on the vault, so people wants to clear out all the keys needed for the week in 1-2 days to make sure the vault is done for the week.

As well as the community accepting nothing but effiency as less time spent in keys = more keys done in a evening = more gear = faster progession = profit

Time is gear / rating to further increase the metaphorical and virtual BLEEP size

Having good gear and good rating, is like getting the golden ticket to the chocolate factory, AKA you will be less likely to be rejected by LFG groups

It feels like this is the mentality that takes root quite hard and pushes people onwards to clear content as fast as humanly possible to compete in the gearing rat race for the current season (In this case gearing up BEFORE the season starts, to get a flying boost towards KSM in season 1)

All of this in the end spills out into regular dungeons while leveling or at the start of a new expansion, is what I feel about it all atleast

90

Jesus christ every time the issue of go go go is mentioned on this forum, all the crooked boomers come out of the woodwork to blame the zoomers. Its funny and so far removed from reality.

Im 28, far from a boomer. “go go go” has been in the game ever since people learned how the game works. It was less of a thing in Vanilla and TBC because the game was still growing then, so chances are if you made a dungeon group back then you had at least 1 player on your group who was relatively new to the game.

Why slow yourself down if you can go at a normal pace?

That being said, if someone in your group specifically requests you to go slower, the least you can do is acknowledge it in some way. But the fact of the matter is, WoW is not a social experience anymore and hasnt been for a long time. Its a game.

Back in the day WoW was the only way for many people to make online friendships and contacts. Discord didnt exist. Social Media was in its infancy.

Back then you made friends in WoW. Nowadays, you bring your friends to WoW from outside.

91

and I would say that the data is proving them very right. Unless you mayhap consider normal every other 16yo being under prescription anti-depressant, just for starters.

Some people are not most people, certainly not the majority, and yet this culture this way of behaving is not only considered very normal, but so endorsed that as soon as you open a topic about it several of this power tripping egomaniacs come crawling out of the walls defending it as sacrosanct.
That is exactly the reason I have been wondering if drugs are the culprit here, because I refuse to believe that being a d¤ck today is the norm.

92

This is true.

But.

You know the parable of the Vegan Daughter? Family of 4…You are cooking. The daughter has just declared herself a vegan, and won’t eat anything else.

Now, you can cook one meal for her, and another for everyone else. Or you can tell her to cook her own dinner, and live with doors slamming for the next week. Or you can make vegan for everyone. Which is what you will probably do. And so the minority coerces the majority.

Applying that to LFG, there is a very high chance that at least one of these “some people” will be in your group. This is where he runs ahead, screaming at everyone to hurry up. Coolly, logically, here on the forums, I would say let him die.

In practice, though, I probably won’t, and several times as a tank I have betrayed my principles and run on and taken aggro, with a mental apology to the healer. There will likely be at least one other who will join the rusher, and then if you don’t keep up, the whole thing becomes disorganised, people spread out, people dying.

And I repeat: if you don’t have everyone rushing, this is what will happen in most groups, because even if those “some people” are a minority, they are a big enough minority that most groups will have one.

And that is why

Have you ever heard of a website called Twitter? :stuck_out_tongue:

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93

You probably never played pre wrath XD
You know those symbols above the mobs? you might probably use the skull for primary target and X for secondary.

WE invented them.
Skull - Main target… Cross - Secondary target … Yellow - Sap … Blue - Sheep … Green - Repentance or another CC… Purple - keep it interrupted… and so on.
There was no rush in Vanilla / TBC… just pure CC :rofl:

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94

Isnt possible its just what the majority enjoy naturally? Theyre not being d*cks. Theyre playing the game in a fashion they enjoy most.

Are there some idiots out there yes. Are there people in rdf who will wipe groups being silly, yes but this has always existed snd always will, speed running is the most fun thing to do in WoW.

Im 30. Ive played WoW on and off since vanilla launch, im not on drugs, i dont play normal or heroic mode dungeons though i skip and go straight into premade content.

I endorse it because, running at slow speeds bores the hell out of most, its just rly boring.

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95

It is the design of the game but I don’t know how to fix it to be honest. You make normal dungeons easy so everyone can finish them but then you have experienced players that will get bored if it’s too easy. They will try to create a challenge where there is none by pulling as many as they can or finish it in record time.

It’s what’s happening in wotlk. There is no challenge in finishing a raid so the playerbase has created challenges themselves by speed running and parsing.

One way to fix it maybe is to pair noobs with noobs. First time running this dungeon? We’ll pair you with other first timers. That way nobody knows a shortcut and everyone will be careful.

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96

I’ve seen people go dumb after sniffing glue and taking drugs, maybe you’re slow because of their earlier use?
GOGOGO!

97

Bro. YOU CAN SOLO HEROICS ON DRUID OR PALADIN TANKS. YES. It’s blizzard’s fault for making content so mindless that all of them are twitchy and can’t be bothered.

98

nah man, I’m just chilling.
Life is easier when you’re not part of the generation that needs to constantly go at max speed to try and outrun the existential dread cause by solitude and self imposed extinction.

Besides I didn’t grow up in a poor country, so we didn’t have to shoot up the wall scrape :joy:

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99

We dont go max speed, if we did itd look very different.

Our chilled pace is just faster then yours lmao… pulling entire rooms is a chilled run, max speeds pulling 3.

100

It seems some people keep missing the point here: what exactly is the point of going faster, if by wiping the group the run is taking longer ?

In example a few years back, I had a run in BFA Freehold dungeon. The run was going perfectly, till we wiped because the idiot BE Rogue decided to pull one extra pack of mobs. We wiped and when asked why he did it, he replied: “ZZZZZ”.

Maybe Blizzard has been way too generous in this expansion. It’s probably obvious by now some people enjoy being killed, wiping several times and coming out with empty handed. Just like in Mithic+.

It’s sad when things become more accessible some people don’t value it.
I remember how hard was to put a group together was when we had to write constantly in LFG “Looking for 1 more DPS and Healer for UBRS”.

Running dungeons was a problem because we couldn’t spam them, we didn’t had enough knowledge about them. YouTube didn’t had videos about it either.

Maybe in the next expansion the SL model should be brought back. Too many people are missing it.
/S

Edit: Typing.

Cheers.

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101

Okay, now I’m curious; for you to mention this part tells me that the clap back was fire, so I can’t imagine how disappointed you were when you realized that he had blocked you.

So what was it, what was the clap back?