Is it impossible for a Warlock to use Arcane magic?

Argent Dawn
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Last night I’ve had a very interesting interaction and conversation with a person that insisted the above due to the following quote from the Legion quest “Opposites Repel”:

"There’s a balance that must be struck, , when becoming a demon hunter. In order to maintain that balance, we must infuse ourselves with opposite forces of nature.

Fel energy is counteracted by arcane energy. We mark our bodies with arcane runes to keep our fel forces in check."

They insisted that because of this tidbit and the fact that Demon-Hunters don’t use Arcane Spells that it is canonically impossible for a Warlock to use Arcane magic and anything of that sort is Fel disguised as Arcane.

Their argument is that because this quest says “Fel energy is counteracted by arcane energy” that they cancel each other out and that it would be the most effective weapon against Demons. Hence if DH don’t learn arcane spells despite it beign the most effective weapon against demons, it is because it’s impossible and thus a warlock can’t use arcane spells either.

They have also said that using any form of magic is done through suffusing yourself with it and channeling it out of you and in the process the magic inevitably “corrupts” the user. Arcane giving longer life, Life giving… horns like Malfurion, Death making your skin more sallow, Fel giving you the whole demoney treatment, light giving you glowing eyes like the LF etc.

So they say that someone who has used Fel magic has suffused their body with it and thus, because of the two forces being opposite, they -cannot- use Arcane.

I sincerely disagree, as many Warlocks were mages that kept their disguises going as members of polite society whilst summoning demons for a hobby. If their above idea was correct, even using fel magic once would serve to weaken and disrupt the potency and effectiveness of mages, something that, with repeated use WOULD be detectable.

We have also clear evidence that opposing forces can and are used in tandem, such as with Light and Void, with Twilight Magic and Discipline Priests.

We have also clear evidence that Arcane and Fel can be used together as in the Mage Order Hall quest there are casters using “FelFrost” spells. Of course, the person I was debating with would offer the previously mentioned counterpoint that Fel can create any effect arcane magic can and can be disguised as such.

What is your opinion/view on this subject?

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Summoning a demon and having a demon soul inhabit your body are pretty different things. Also, nightborne literally have arcane tattoos and until not long ago were arcane addicts and they can be warlocks so I’d say there’s not a problem. Unless you combine too many mage and warlock spells in emotes and whatnot of course, then it’s a problem of being too overpowered. But on a conceptual level? Nah, you can probably use both.

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It is true that Demon Hunters can’t wield the Arcane, Jace whateverhisname says as much. I don’t think it applies to Warlocks though. Like you said, many warlocks are former mages. According to your friend that’s impossible, as mages should not be able to use Fel.

We have plenty of examples of individuals using Fel and Arcane. I believe Tal’kiel(?) is a more recent example.

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So, uh. Yeah, what about them warlocks and arcane, huh!

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(Replying to Rainwatcher again and then my reply to Thyasa, since I didn’t know how these forums work and that they don’t let you double-post when replying and I messed up)

Summoning a demon and having a demon soul inhabit your body are pretty different things. Also, nightborne literally have arcane tattoos and until not long ago were arcane addicts and they can be warlocks so I’d say there’s not a problem. Unless you combine too many mage and warlock spells in emotes and whatnot of course, then it’s a problem of being too overpowered. But on a conceptual level? Nah, you can probably use both.

I completely agree with you on that.

My thinking is that, whilst a Warlock can use Fel, Shadow AND Arcane magics, to combine Fel and Arcane in their pure forms in a single spell would result in an explosion, an inert puff or a catastrophic blowback to the user due to the two forces being complete opposites.

But if a caster were to use a more diluted form of Arcane, such as an ice-spell and infuse it with Fel magics, to create the “Felfrost” spells, that should be fine.

Or just… Being able to use Fel and Arcane seperately!

It is true that Demon Hunters can’t wield the Arcane, Jace whateverhisname says as much. I don’t think it applies to Warlocks though. Like you said, many warlocks are former mages. According to your friend that’s impossible, as mages should not be able to use Fel.

We have plenty of examples of individuals using Fel and Arcane. I believe Tal’kiel(?) is a more recent example.

Indeed! And when I used the example of the eye of aman’thul (an arcane artefact) being used to channel the nightwell (a source of arcane magic) to power the fel portal to allow sargeras to take over Illidan’s body, they suggested that it has been evident that Fel magic can corrupt Arcane magic, despite it contradicting their own idea of the two cancelling each other out.

I really don’t understand their point as they are basically saying that since ALL magic ALWAYS corrupts their user even in tiny ways, that fel corruption cancels arcane, but arcane doesn’t cancel fel despite them still being opposing forces.

I really hope we get someone who disagrees replies with their own thoughts here because I really want to fully understand their point of view, so that I know what I’m doing right and what I’m doing wrong.

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I think the most important thing is that if a warlock uses Fel and Arcane both, they probably aren’t as powerful Fel-wise as someone who studies and practises it full-time. Because I do think there is a trade-off when using these forms of magic. Do you use mostly fel magic, well maybe complex arcane spells won’t be as evident anymore and vice versa.

I hope that makes sense!

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The blood mages (mage/warlock blood elf class) would like to have a word.

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I can’t see why not. They probably can’t use both at the same time, due to the contradicting nature of both forces, but I can’t see why someone couldn’t use one and then the other.

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in old magic lore, arcane was just a more “orderly” version of fel

not super sure how well you can wield two opposing forces but I mean disc priests are a thing, so wielding two opposites in moderation is probably not out of the question.

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I think that’s the reasonable path where RP is concerned. “Jack of all trades, master of none” as it were.

There are other things in the equation to consider as well. Why opt for the far more dangerous and addictive Fel? And if that threshold has been crossed, why would a warlock “settle for” arcane magic and not pursue absolute mastery of the darker arts? Are there risks of one or the other backfiring due to a lacking commitment to either sort of magic?

Not saying that it cannot be rationalized - of course it can - but those are the sort of things to consider if wanting a Magelock(?) type character.

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I always figured that a sizeable proportion of Warlocks were at some point in their path, a mage (or a shaman or whatever) but turned to Warlocking out of hunger for power, desperation, the primrose path of dalliance or whatever.

Unlike other things a warlock might have been I don’t think it’s unreasonable that your Warlock might still know a bit of Arcane magic but I’d play it more as “I used to do that but now I know how to Warlock which is better/easier” than being “I am the warlock who is also the mage”.

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Warlocks literally use arcane magic in the game.
Only actual fel spells that they use is Chaos Bolt, and various demonology spells.
Affliction uses shadow, of which we know there are shadowmages.
And Destruction uses fire, which is Arcane in nature.

In lore most warlocks don’t tend to use arcane anymore because they have no real reason to. Arcane is more difficult and more complicated. To them it would be like trying to eat soup with a fork.

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What is with the Blood Mages?
They are just arcane mages.

The fire part of arcane magic is still arcane magic, but many fear it because they associate it with demonic magic.

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It’s all Fel. There’s a difference between Arcane made fire and “Hellfire”, i.e fire from Fel, which is what demons and the Legion use.

Warlocks just get the snazzy option of choosing colour palettes for their flames.

The Blood Elf variant? Just an aesthetic.

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The destruction warlock is well-versed in discharging a dizzying array of shadow, fel, fire, and chaos magics upon opponents that rattle souls and conflagrate bodies.

From the Legion class preview page. The fire magic they use could be arcane, though if the green fire questline is anything to go by, it could be elemental from the Firelands. Either way, destro locks use a bit of everything.

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A warlock that started as a mage could easily use Arcane on top of Fel to do things that it might be suited for better (such as using ice spells ICly, or even say that the fire they use is of Arcane nature).
However, if your character started as a warlock, it makes sense for everything they do to be Fel, maybe with a bit of Shadow thrown in because why would they bother learning how to use Arcane for many years to get on the level where Arcane spells would be comparable in power to Fel?

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You can headcanon it that way if you like, but this is untrue according to what we know. Felflames have always, always been green.
A mage would technically have artistic freedom with their spells, since Arcane is the magic that creates and shapes the universe. Fel is just raw uncontained destruction.
“Hellflame” Would still be nothing more than regular Arcane flames. Possibly infused with shadow, at the most, to create Shadowflames. But most certainly not fel.

In the class selection screen, warlocks are described as wielders of “Fire and Shadow” magic. Not that the class selection is the most valid lore indicator, but it punctually supports my argument.

There is literally a “green fire” quest in the game for if you actually want your warlock to use just Fel. But they’re very different.

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In regards to that, wasn’t there a questline that directly says that Warlocks manifest flames directly from the Firelands?

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That’s true. The same way mages do, because it’s essentially the same thing.
Blood Elf Pyromancers used to be considered warlocks, due to the fire’s association with felfire.
In this case, one would have to ask themselves what exactly a warlock is, in the lore? Truth is, there is no direct answer.
In the English language, a “warlock” is someone who practices “witchcraft” or sorcery.
While we tend to associate warlocks with felmagic, a warlock could very well simply be someone who practices dark magic in general. Be it fel, shadow, necromancy, or blood, or variations of each.

I’m curious which questline you’re referring to, though. It sounds quite insightful.

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I found this in a similar post to mine

In the green fire questline we see destro warlocks tap into Deathwing’s molten fury and stealing the fires of Ragnaros to fuel their flames, but in Last Guardian we see an orc warlock create hellfire by cutting his palm and using blood magic as a source for it.

Also, I should point out that the Codex of Xerrath explicitly says

Corrupts all of your Warlock fire spells, infusing them with fel magic.

Which pretty much says that a Warlocks fire spells have no fel magic involved without said Codex infusing them with it.

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