I like how you play around with my arguments and just nit-pick the sentences which you can play the “You are evil card”.
I said this before…but by all means. Will repeat once more. LFR was designed as story mode for people to conclude the story. NOT as an gearing path. Heck. Saving those turtles actually takes more effort then to tag and /afk at boss on lfr(except nzoth)…but thats my personal “eLItISt” view I guess.
Cause there is no arguments(proper ones anyway. Not interested in = You say no? YOU ELITIST! ones). I fail to see any reason why a tourist mode raid which fulfills its main function = get people to see the end of the story and the general idea of the raid, be a gearing path as well?
Not my intention. But you do make a nice comedy show…
“If you think LFR was never about gear when it was giving set bonuses and even method members where in there getting the loot, I don’t even know what to say.”
I feel like a lot of you guys are missing the point.
Never did we say that LFR should be a durable gearing path (I even said the opposite).
But, doing WQ alone, without grouping, shouldn’t be a more viable gearing path than doing LFR.
If WQ get buffed, and LFR downgraded and loot removed from it, I’m fine with it ! I don’t care about LFR being good or bad, because that’s not what it’s about. It takes more time and, even if it’s hard to concede, more effort than doing four WQ in the actual state of the game, so I feel like it should be more rewarding than WQ.
ALot of the proffessions have no Gear progression potiental
the ones that did have been neutered
World Quests are of the same ilevel and Gear progressive items are far more sporadic as lot of them give AP / Gold / Reputation
Most of the events such as Dark moon faire have no gear progression.
Emmisary quests are used as a tool for catch up… but the Gear is less accessible then LFR as its very random and u can go weeks before u see things such as Weapon caches.
actually you do, for example.
Emmisary quests and World Quests Catch up mechanics WERE advertised to be exactly that. Ion has SEVERAL TIMES OVER stated his Wish for these tools in open world to be used as Catch up Mechanics.
Catch up Mechanics should not Depend on a Queue Popularity or your Role to pace of catch up, excluding them to open world is Far healthier for a Alt progression as Waiting 1-3hours Per Queue to wipe 15 times and maybe 4 hours later get all the Wings done. should not be what is expected of a player to go through.
and before u argue “its cause of the gear its not popular enough”
try make a M+ see how long comparitively to getting 3 DPS is to getting a tank or healer. Queues are huge due to the huge disimbalancing of Roles overall. a large majority of players Want to be DPS. which overbloats the role and causes queues and more to slow down excessively for them.
Sure
they dont. World Quests cap out at 430 ilevel. Emmisary Quests Cap out at 445 which is above LFR, but also Gear rewards are Rare from the emmisary and u have Less Chances Per week AT loot from that system then u do in the LFR Enviroment. which overall as a Net gain between 4 pieces of 430 gear v 1 piece of 445 is a greater Stat increase and Ilevel gain Overall.
no blizzard Advertise content and the context of reasoning for their choice. this a Theme park MMORPG, which means its Dictated by a Narrative to how we engage with the content… its not a Sandbox MMORPG which are More Free to play the way u want.
Rule 1) Dont play a Theme park MMORPG if CHOICE is what you want.
I do, but i also remember all those methods actually being deleted from the game?.. and the closest i’ve seen to their return is blizzard wanting to return the concept of Class Themed Pieces… without tier set bonuses… which still wouldnt bring LFR Back.
its a Theme park MMORPG… that means u play the game in a Way it is created. thats the ROLE of a THeme park MMORPG… u progress in the way the game wants you to, not how u want to. stop trying to play the game like a Sandbox MMORPG and u may actually see some success in your Ideas and views.
blizzards Decisions and changes have done nothing but Relieve the concept of Enforced raiding and change the decisions to make M+ the stronger alternative to raiding instead of these Queued systems they orginally had.
M+ Removed the Reason for LFRS existance outside of Story. and the Modern game has done nothing but Change to Make sure that fit works.
your so quick to scream over rewards from open world content, yet u completely Ignore how Regular you get gear from LFR comparitively, oyu also ignore the fact World Quest Loot Scales.
If u make a New char, at 420 ilevel with i dunno a level 60 Neck piece. your World quests award 415 gear ur Emmisaries 425 gear.
LFR is actually a much better option against World Quests. because its loot is Statically 430 for all players and drops WAAY More loot per week on Average. which means the ilevel per hour Is techniqually far better in LFR… until you’ve Done LFR and u’ve gotten ur neck like level 80 and ur at 435 ilevel. which is when u progress past LFR Reguardless.
wrong.
a 410 player (which is when LFR Begins)
at 410, ur world quests Award 400-410 Ilevel gear.
at 410 your LFR Rewards are 430.
Also LFR Trinkets are FAR better then Open worlds Trinkets. as they carry BiS procs on them and even bloodmallet and more sim sites prove this.
ontop of this, LFR Drops your BiS Azerite pieces which a 445 piece of azerite simply would not Outsim. going beyond this the final 3 bosses which typically drop these BiS Azerite pieces or atleast 2 of them. are actually 445 ilevel themselves.
going further, garunteed Corruption effects Pushs them higher DPS Gains comparitively to WQ Drops.
and the Scaling system doesnt give u access to the 445 loot which is above LFR in most cases doesnt really kick in til ur 435-440 and progressed ur neck past a certain point. which is when LFR Progression has already ended.
Its Fine for content to simply be Out progressed. its fine for content to reach a Point and be ignorable.
That’s true, and wrong because you forget other parameters. First, I think you should up the number of Emissary stuff boxes to at least two per week, rarely did we have weeks without two or more of them, even before catch-up mechanisms. Then, you have the other “easy” content : assaults on 8.3, farmable benthic gear in 8.2, warfronts, first vision of the week even with only Thrall/Alleria, world bosses…
If you get all this world content together, you get farm more loot than by doing LFR, and it takes, in comparaison, almost the same time, probably a bit more per week if everything goes well in your LFR, which actually is oftenly not the case, and this even with the consideration of the iLvl when hitting 120 which was actually a very good point.
At the end of the day, maybe it does balance itself, but I think with the player base queuing for LFR, it’s more challenging to do LFR than the other content, as they are a lot of groups forming to farm assaults together. And again, it’s not a big deal because in the big scheme of things, it’s just a beginning path that will, for the most of us, not last very long.
It’s just a thing these days to hate on lfr when it is even harder to finish a full run on lfr when it is current than it is to finish a normal raid run. Then some people will say “then why not run normal and stop whining?” or something like that, but some people just don’t like to argue with others about ilvl and raider io whatever it is called, and some just hate to listen to a 14 year old kid yelling at everyone and kicking people left and right, that is why lfr is nice to have and it yields nice transmog once every 100’th run. Stuff that is more tedious and harder to do gives less gear if anything so stop with the lfr hate, I know you all like to act elitist and “cool” but you’re really not.
And yes, I just know someone will say “make your own group, problem solved”, it’s getting old, lfr is for those who DON’T want to create a group and lead.
Ah. Thanks for reminding me about the horrors heroic and/or mythic raiders had to suffer at the start of every patch.
Unlucky with getting a tier set bonus early? Time for LFR.
Look. I don’t have any objections to LFR or people who do it. But keep LFR in a level where people who raid on higher levels are not forced to do it as well.
As for your argument about method people doing it. Yes. They where. Cause for world firsts or the competitive nature of mythic in general forced them to do it. Getting the tier set bonus…even if some of it comes a LFR quality item was mandatory(if you aimed for world firsts and etc.)
Untrue realistically, when BFA Launched Alliance waited over a Month for their first weapon cache. and tbh a Weapon caches average Rate is actually 2 weeks Per 1 on average.
ontop of this, given the nature of the boxs, Which is randomized. you dont actually get to Decide, for example a Azerite box. will only give u azerite armour. Which the top end of LFR for azerite armour matchs.
Again u ignore the scaling system
Stop looking at the Rewards from World Content on your main. go log on a 410 Character and you tell me Where ur 445 ilevel rewards are.
The only time WQs are BETTER progression is AFTER lfr Progression. Once your 435-440 with a Azerite neck of level 75-80.
Open world Content is NOT 430 or 445 for a 410 ilevel player, your jkust looking down onto the system with a overgeared Character for said content.
LFR Progresses you from 410 to 435, which is Reasonable.
u cant base Content difficulty on the players ability.
Should Mythic Nzoth award higher ilevel for Raids of players who Dont have curve? No. U just remove the players unable to meet the Skill requirements and get ones who can.
LFR is Afkable, So many players do it, and its the only reason why the content feels hard. because half your raid are AFK while u do the work.
LFR is a toxic Gear progression, which promotes AFKing for free loot and Also putting u in a PuG Enviroment. the game is Catered the concept of playing with friends and Joining guilds and Progressing as a Unit. how can u not see why Promoting PuG enviroments Isnt the best idea when it goes against the Core purpose of a MMORPG.
no. if u Took a Guild Premade into LFR u’d clear it far easier then if u do it on normal. if we’re talking raid Difficulty, u have to compare them on Equals. the reason LFR Seems harder is Because you have no way to control who ends up on your team… and how many of said players AFK.
in Normal Raids, AFK players arent present and theres general Rules In the team building to Maximise the ability of your team. THe part that makes LFR hard is the toxicity and Ease of it, which drives Players who Dont have any intention to play the game to join it.
U have to compare difficulties on a flat surface realistically.
Guild premade LFR or Normal. im pretty sure Normal would work out harder. Stop taking Rubbish which doesnt apply to Difficulty and applying it. your player skill or the people surrounding you player skill is of ZERO measurement in this case.
Dude, the Vast majority of LFR are 14 year olds… the reason u dont hear em is because they’re AFK Auto attacking the damn boss Causing majority of your wipes Lmfao.
No Easymode Content which is Swarmed by a Toxic Enviroment which Causes People to go through hell gives Less Reward.
LFR isnt Hard, the players ur playing with Dont care about the game nor success therefore Generates a “Feeling of difficulty”. Stop applying Things which arent Involved in Difficulty balancing.
Player skill doesnt = Difficulty.
Raid Difficulty in Tested Enviroments by the Same Players do.
Again. a guild premade Will find LFR easier then Normal. thats the Line. its The fact. Playing with Idiots Doesnt increase a games difficulty. it Just means Ur playing with idiots.
your argument is So far out there I could make the same argument saying
“People with Special Needs should get higher ilevel items for their work then regular players, because the Bar is Harder for some players”.
For example
Heroic Raiding.
Would a Person with 2 hands find Heroic Raiding as Hard as a Player with 1 hand?. or could someone with Parse a DPS Check as easily With Arthiritus as a 19 year old could?
Only because they designed them to be a failure to begin with. Players have been conditioned into expecting all content from the group finders to be easy, mindless and boring because that is the only thing that is accessible through them. Other than that there is hardly a difference between a group generated through LFG and a group generated through pugs. Only major difference is a clear leader, but even that role tends to fall onto the tanks in random groups. Both LFG and PUGS have a predetermined requirement for joining.
Look at FFXIV, that game got almost all content queuable through LFG with the exception of the most recent “mythic” raids. And that game have a community even with the LFG tools, and the bosses fought through LFR will murder you if you make mistakes. It’s not LFG that killed the community other factors killed the community that can both be related to this game or other external reasons.
Like the alternative to LFG outside of guilds which was spamming /3 LFG for hours while competing against other spammers. And we can see how that ends up with trade chat.
Agree here, but you’re only talking about weapon cached which, I totally agree, are rare.
Azerite boxes are the most common ones, and I agree that it can be bad due to your RNG gods being angry at you.
No, at least not entirely.
Heroic warfront give 460 no matter what.
Assaults give at the very least 430 gear.
Vision gives at least 420 gear.
World bosses give at least 430 gear.
Do some BG’s with a chance to get a 425, and within a week for sure you have a 440 weapon.
Never said anything like that. I just wanted to point out that most people queuing in LFR are not geared, not skilled with their class most of the time, and that leads the raid to be more challenging that it could be, at 415 ilvl (I think that’s where you can start it). Of course, now there’s plenty of high-iLvl people queuing for it, so it’s usually easier, but at the beginning of the patch? Most certainly not.
Hmm… I don’t see why you brought that up? I totally agree with you, but that has nothing to do with what I said.
your right, and NO ONE USES it. dont try bring FFXIV PuGs to me. i play FFXIV, and any Reliable Source on that game would tell u your wasting ur Life trying to use it. i think they said in Japan they use it. but NA and EU ignore it on a huge level.
i had a guildie in FFXIV who was in a Queue for like 5 hours and still no one was applying. The quantity of players i’ve had to go help through the Mandatory raid Quests becuase NO ONE WILL DO IT.
ALL the content is run through Premade functionality in that game Outside of the Dungeons. which in FFXIV are of 1 difficulty level not multiple so isnt really comparable.
It removed the Nessecity for a Casual Player to INTERACT WITH ANYONE. you didnt need a guild. u didnt have to care for ur name… or any sake of Reputation and more.
We arent talking about the social aspects of the game in MAKING A GROUP. we’re talking about how many social Aspects u can IGNORE playing the game on that level.
All I read is bla bla bla… LFR is not about creating a premade so I don’t care what you say, most people who play lfr are way more nice than regular raiders in my experience, it’s people who are more relaxed and play to feel good and relaxed while having a, hopefully, nice time. Gone are the days when I used to raid regularly and I couldn’t be happier about it. It’s the same thing with mythic + dungeons these days, it’s all built upon stress and beating a timer and avoiding annoying stuff at the same time, I don’t game to lose my mind and log off feeling my heartbeat going full speed. And that is usually why people is so rude cause they are stressed out all the time. LFR is way better.
You sure can ! But I prefered not to bring it up because we were talking about a new player environment, and I feel like few new players really use WM (could be wrong tho)
And it’s abundantly clear that you are talking out of your a**e. FFXIV have multiple “roulette” queues which gets used precisely to minimize the endless waiting times.
Nearly all the content outside of the highest raids is available through the roulette system.
Shocker you never did, even in classic. Spam chat LFG → Whisper → Inspect gear → possibly ask questions about the bosses → invite/Ignore.
Such an incredibly social interaction. Again it’s not the group finder tools or the cross servers that killed the community, it’s completely other things.
