Is m+ getting out of hand?

Community General Discussion
1

I feel m+ is designed specifically around player retention.

I think that Blizzard designs m+ around never allowing the player to be “done”.

I started in Cataclysm. I tanked heroic dungeons and they were tedious and hard because:

  1. You had to CC every pack.
  2. Bosses had one shot mechanics.

An heroic dungeon at that time would take about an hour to complete, depending on how good your group was.
But do you know what was different around that time?
Every boss you killed would drop an item that someone in your group could’ve used (unless you had no cloth wearers and it dropped a cloth piece).

Where as in m+, only one player gets loot… from the chest at the end, that’s it.

And I like how the dungeon achievements set the tone from the newbies and the hardcore players.

I was at one point done with one character. I achieved the highest possible item level for a character from heroic dungeons, since I was too much of a newb and too young (I was 14 at the time), I never made it into raiding until the Firelands hit and I was with a group who took the time to explain tactics and where they were donned in Firelands gear.

What I found great is how you also could farm valor for epic raid items, aswell as grind reputations for epic quality items ontop. Paired with professions, one could actually reach a fairly high amount of power level compared to a raider. It just took more time to achieve, which was, okay in my book.

I also feel M+ is lazy. Giving the same items every season, it’s just the process of scaling the item level each season. You couldn’t design the game more lazy than that.

6 Likes
2

If youre going to whine at least use correct information

1 Like
3

For the first month until nerfed into ground because of the lash out from playerbase.

2 loot per dungeon timed and untimed.

4

This is false information. The only reason heroics were ‘hard’, is because healers were absolute trash till they got buffed abit, and because they came after wotlk, which was a loot pinata all day all night long.

Again false information.

That’s true, I’ll give you that.

Except this won’t happen this time around. M+ dungeon pool will change every season, meaning you won’t farm the same items.

1 Like
5

It might be my faulty memory but didn’t you used to need items that only dropped in the raid in order to craft raid quality gear and the tokens for completing the daily heroics only allowed to you obtain gear as the same ilvl as the heroic epics not raid ilvl.

6

There was some boots that you could buy with VP during firelands and they were BOE aswell so you could use or sale them but they were on par with FL herioc item level just very poor stats.

7

Wdym never be done? Makes no sense.

That was more the case with an absolutely horrible perma wiping group.

Well, that’s simply wrong.

And that’s wrong. You get 2 items.

Just like you are done after clearing +20s now but if you wish, u can push as high as possible for you. That’s called player choice and is a good thing. You can choose how you want to play.

Actually the M+ pool is changing, unlike the heroic pool back in the days.

1 Like
8

They dont anymore. As each seaspn offwes completely different dungeons

Ofcourse m+ is designed to finish, yoy will reach a time incredibly fast where ur only upgrades are from vault.

Which means ur reduced to 8 dungeons a week being ur progression

You may dislike or like the game or this game mode, but it seems insane ur posting ur views without actually knowing the game mode this expansion

9

I wasn’t whining, I wasn’t aware that in Dragonflight they upgraded mythic dungeons from giving 1 item to 2 items at the end of every dungeon done. This was only a thing during the weekly event of dungeons.

Until you can give me evidence, I think I know more about my experience from heroic dungeons, given that I completed the achievement for the mount in 2011, and it was still hard to do. Ofcourse you could cheese a few mechanics but given that players had still difficulties in timewalking (BREAK YOURSELF UPON MY BODY), I don’t think your narrative is the truth.

I wasn’t aware this had changed from Shadowlands.

I think you are given false information. Healers weren’t absolute trash. It’s just that the mechanics were hard. Every mob pack you had to CC a minion.

If you want, here’s proof:

Not false information at all.
Unless you had a good group that knew what to do it was hard to pug.

In the end, aren’t you going to end up farming the same items down the line if the pools recycle every season? So in Season 3 or 4 we’re going back to the same pool as season 1?

No you could get raid item quality epics from valor and from professions you’d get from reputation grinds. What’s true is that raid quality profession recipes also dropped in the raid itself.

How long do you have to grind to reach BiS just through M+ dungeons?

I think that adds to the challenge. Communicating with the players instead of kicking or leaving and retrying breeds toxicity.

How is that wrong???
Every boss you killed in a dungeon dropped an item.

Where as now you only get 2 items for killing 5 bosses, 6?

Nice.

That’s really the problem with M+. The constant repetitiveness. Who enjoys running the same dungeons over and over albeit for a higher item level? That’s a hamster wheel. And the only way you’ll reach even a higher item level is if you run 8 dungeons every week.

Sure, but Cataclysm gave us 5 heroic dungeons down the line in the expansion. Sure we had 2 recycled raid instances turned into a dungeon but they were still hard to do.

I’ve reached KSM in BfA and Shadowlands first season before I got bored out of my mind of running the same dungeons all over again. I’m not new to the M+ aspect, nor did I pay money for people to complete it for me. I pugged it all back then.

What am I insane off? The same stuff recycled down the line because it’s easier for Blizzard to go back to old content than it is to create new stuff and this is what you cheer on? And then you call me insane?

I find it baffling really, that this kind of Diablo mechanic is still allowed in an MMORPG.
If you guys find this game mode so fun and challenging there’s a whole new game out for you, Diablo 3, and you can actually see a new variant of that soon, Diablo 4.

Fun times for the M+ players.

10 
(https://www.eurogamer.net/blizzard-nerfs-cataclysm-dungeons)

" Blizzard appears to be saying one thing and doing another - patch 4.06 will make many of the World of Warcraft: Cataclysm dungeon encounters considerably easier than they currently are.

That’s the doing part.

The saying part belongs to [Blizzard uncharacteristically defending the difficulty of Cataclysm’s Heroic dungeons]this week, stating that they’re not too hard and that they won’t be made easier.

Evidently they will be; the largest section of the 4.06 patch notes belongs to Dungeons & Raids. Blackrock Caverns, Grim Batol, Halls of Origination, Lost City of the Tol’vir, The Stonecore, Throne of the Tides and The Vortex Pinnacle have all had boss encounters nerfed - that is, made easier, less powerful.

There’s also a whole swathe of class adjustments, race tweaks, PVP alterations and some general guffery to read about. This is, after all, the first proper patch after World of Warcraft: Cataclysm tore up old Azeroth in December.

And what fun we had in Cataclysm, resulting in [a fourth, unprecedented 10/10 for World of Warcraft from Eurogamer]

all the nerfs

Dungeons & Raids

  • Level-85 players can now choose any normal dungeon via the Dungeon Finder. Choosing Random Dungeon will still not add Blackrock Caverns or Throne of the Tides into the rotation.
  • Level-85 dungeon bosses in Lost City of the Tol’vir, Grim Batol, and Halls of Origination now drop 30 Justice Points each when killed.
  • The daily Random Dungeon reward on normal difficulty has been increased to 140 Justice Points, up from 70.
  • Players no longer need to discover Cataclysm dungeon entrances in order to access them via the Dungeon Finder.
  • The Bastion of Twilight
    • Ascendant Council
      • The Elementium Monstrosity can be attacked from farther away than was previously the case.
      • The damage dealt by Liquid Ice has been increased significantly.
      • The damage dealt by Electric Instability on normal difficulty has been reduced slightly.
      • Immunity effects will no longer cancel Gravity Crush.
      • Gravity Crush no longer hits additional targets on Heroic difficulty.
      • Frozen Orbs now despawn at the start of phase 3 on Heroic difficulty.
    • Cho’gall
      • The recast time on Depravity has been increased in 10-player mode.
    • Halfus Wyrmbreaker
      • Shadow Nova is now cast less frequently in 10-player modes to account for fewer available interrupts there.
      • The captured drakes in this encounter now apply Dragon’s Vengeance when they are killed instead of when they are freed. To account for this change, the health and damage of the drakes has been reduced, and the damage bonus gained from Dragon’s Vengeance has been increased.
    • Valiona and Theralion
      • Immunities no longer port players out of the Twilight Realm.
      • The damage dealt by Twilight Sentries on Heroic difficulty has been reduced.
  • Blackrock Caverns
    • Beauty now spawns with only two pups in Heroic difficulty. Not to worry though, the missing pup has been adopted by a wonderful, if not insane family.
  • Blackwing Descent
    • Atramedes will now go berserk after 10 minutes on Heroic difficulty.
    • Magmaw
      • Blazing Bone Constructs on Heroic difficulty no longer drop fire periodically.
      • Blazing Bone Constructs on Heroic difficulty have had their health reduced.
      • Magmaw’s health on Heroic difficulty has been reduced.
    • Maloriak
      • Increased the cast time of Release Aberrations.
      • Heroic: Decreased the health of the Vile Swill by 15%.
      • Heroic: Dark Sludge can now only target players.
    • Nefarian
      • The Chromatic Prototypes featured in the second phase of this encounter now wait longer before casting their first Blast Nova.
      • The Stolen Power enhancement gained in Heroic difficulties now increases all damage and healing for a set time, but each attack is increased by a smaller amount. This change will not be reflected in the tooltip until a later patch.
      • Freeing one’s mind from Dominion now grants a movement speed bonus for a short time.
    • Omnotron Defense System
      • There is now a 10-minute berserk timer on Heroic difficulty.
      • Golem health has been reduced on Heroic difficulty.
      • The damage dealt by Incineration Security Measure has been reduced.
  • Deadmines
    • Foe Reaper 5000
      • Foe Reaper 5000’s health has been reduced slightly. In addition, he now enrages at 40%, up from 30%.
      • When enraged, Molten Slag spawn 33% faster.
    • Ripsnarl
      • The ship teleporter now activates when Ripsnarl is first engaged, rather than when he is defeated.
    • Vanessa VanCleef
      • While in Helix’s Nightmare during the Vanessa VanCleef encounter, Helix is now larger and a little easier to see.
      • The final rope swing while fighting Vanessa VanCleef has been removed. Players no longer need to swing off of the boat at the end of phase 3.
      • Some boat fires will now go out when Vanessa VanCleef is defeated, making it easier to get back onto the ship from the cavern entrance.
      • Vengeance of VanCleef has been redesigned. It is now a stacking buff that increases damage dealt, size, and attack speed, and stacks up to 40 times. Vanessa will begin casting this as soon as she jumps back onto the boat after detonating charges.
  • Grim Batol
    • Faceless Corruptors now move 10% more slowly.
    • Players may still use spell and abilities while afflicted by Forgemaster Throngus’s Impaling Slam.
    • Valiona’s Devouring Flame damage has been reduced by 20%.
  • Halls of Origination
    • The duration of the Flame Wardens’ Raging Inferno has been reduced by 80%.
    • Anraphet’s Nemesis Strike now does 75% of weapon damage, up from 50%. In addition, the damage-over-time effect applied by this ability does 15,000 damage every 2 seconds, up from 9,000.
    • Earthrager Ptah’s Flame Bolt now deals more damage per second on Heroic difficulty.
    • Setesh seeks a portal every 25 seconds, up from 20.
  • Lost City of the Tol’vir
    • Lockmaw no longer tolerates fighting in his treasure room.
  • Shadowfang Keep
    • Baron Ashbury
      • Sadly, in his hubris he has forgotten how to Mend Rotten Flesh.
    • Lord Godfrey
      • He should now face a random target when casting Pistol Barrage.
    • Lord Walden
      • Conjure Poisonous Mixture now deals more initial damage.
      • Frost Mixture is now area-of-effect damage.
      • Toxic Catalyst now deals less damage over time.
  • The Stonecore
    • Stonecore Earthshapers’ Dust Storm does slightly less damage.
    • Corborus
      • The warning time for Thrashing Charge has been increased by 1 second. In addition, Thrashing Charge now happens 4 times, down from 5.
      • The visual for Rock Borers spawning during the submersion phase is now different from the Thrashing Charge visual.
    • High Priestess Azil
      • She grew! She’s now 175% the size of a human, up from 125%.
      • Gravity Wells should kill Devout Followers more quickly.
      • The cast time of Force Grip is now 1.5 seconds, up from 1.
      • The size of the warning visual for Seismic Shard has been increased to more accurately reflect the area it affects.
    • Slabhide
      • The ground phase lasts longer and has fewer stalactites.
    • Ozruk
      • He now does more melee damage.
      • There is now a precast visual on the ground to make it clear how far away a player must get to be clear of Shatter.
      • The cast time of Shatter has been increased to 3 seconds, up from 2.5.
      • Shatter damage is now reduced by armor, but has been increased by 33.3% (repeating, of course) as a result.
  • Throne of the Four Winds
    • Al’ Akir
      • Al’Akir’s Electrocute can no longer be interrupted by Spell Reflection.
    • Conclave of Wind
      • Heroic: Slicing Gale debuff reduced from 10% per stack to 5%.
      • The duration of the Wind Blast pre-effect has been increased to 5 seconds, up from 3.
  • Throne of the Tides
    • Commander Ulthok now does more melee damage.
    • The damage done by Lady Naz’jatar’s Shock Blast and Naz’jar Tempest Witch Chain Lightning has been reduced.
    • Gilgoblin Poisoned Spear impact damage has been reduced slightly.
    • Tainted Sentries Swell damage has been reduced.
    • The damage of Blight of Ozumat has been reduced by 25% per stack.
  • The Vortex Pinnacle
    • Creatures
      • Desperate Speed cast by Temple Adepts has had its duration reduced significantly.
    • Altairus
      • The visual effects in this encounter have been adjusted to make the wind direction easier to read.
      • Cyclones now knock players straight up, and players hit by a cyclone cannot be hit again for a few seconds.
    • Asaad
      • Skyfall Stars are now summoned to help him defeat players.
      • Static Cling has had its cast time increased to 1.25 seconds, up from 1.
    • Grand Vizier Ertan
      • His health has been reduced slightly.
      • He now knocks away players standing too close to him when he retracts his Cyclone Shield, which now inflicts Nature damage if it touches players.
  • Dungeon & Raid Bug Fixes
    • Many dungeon maps with display issues or missing sections have been updated.
    • Several bosses and creatures were awarding no, or too little, reputation when killed. Conversely, some creatures were awarding too much reputation, or should not have been awarding reputation at all. These inconsistencies have been corrected.
    • Error messages for characters unable to enter a Heroic raid dungeon should be more clear.
    • Players level 83 and higher should be able to correctly queue for holiday dungeon bosses.
    • Players above level 80 can no longer queue for Wrath of the Lich King Heroic dungeons.
    • Level 68-79 Wrath of the Lich King dungeons again award reputation.
    • If a spell is cast which provides items for players (i.e. Soulwell), members of the party or raid should still be able to access the items after the caster leaves the dungeon.
    • Ahn’Qiraj
      • If one of the bug trio bosses is tamed, the encounter can again be completed normally.
    • Baradin Hold
      • Players in the raid dungeon will correctly be given a 15-minute warning before Tol Barad will be in contention again.
    • The Bastion of Twilight
      • There should no longer be a significant performance drop when entering the Bastion Antechamber.
      • Several items dropping in the Heroic version of Bastion of Twilight which did not have the Heroic tag in their tooltip have been updated.
      • Cho’gall should no longer look awkward when he is Distracted while sitting on the Throne of the Apocalypse.
      • The voice-over text now matches the voice-over for Cho’Gall’s speeches.
      • Cho’gall shouldn’t Evade and despawn if pulled too close to the door at the entrance to the Throne of the Apocalypse.
      • Cho’gall shouldn’t despawn if tanked close to his door when he gains Twisted Devotion.
      • If a Fire Elemental is spawned while Cho’gall is standing on the hidden elevator, they will no longer spawn in the wrong location for the remainder of the encounter.
      • The overhead arrow spell animation caused by Valiona’s Twilight Meteorite ability shouldn’t clip into the affected character while animating.
      • The corpses of Valiona and Theralion will adhere to the laws of gravity and fall to the ground if killed during phase transitions.
      • The Cache of the Broodmother (from Sinestra) will no longer despawn if dungeon difficulty is changed in the interface.
      • Static Overload used in the Twilight Ascendant Council encounter no longer deals full damage to pets.
    • Black Morass
      • Sa’at again has a dialog option for players to obtain a Chrono-Beacon, even if they have not completed the quest chain that begins with the quest “The Caverns of Time.”
    • Blackrock Caverns
      • Karsh Steelbender’s targeting reticule no longer changes size when he catches fire.
      • Raz the Crazed no longer returns to his Shadow Prison if Blackrock Caverns is reset, which was preventing players from finishing the dungeon.
      • Players shouldn’t experience a move enforcement error or be pushed under the world if they are standing near lava when affected by Chains of Woe during the Rom’ogg Bonecrusher encounter.
      • Twilight Obsidian Borers in Blackrock Caverns resume channeling of Bore after being under the effects of a rogue’s Sap.
    • Blackwing Descent
      • Ancient Dwarven Shields used while Atramedes is entering or exiting his air phase should correctly be destroyed.
      • There is no longer a dead zone void of Sonic Pulses on the Heroic version of the Atramedes encounter.
      • Arcanotron can no longer be pulled further than intended via a death knight’s Death Grip.
      • Lightning Shield shouldn’t trigger the shields of all Omnotron Council bosses.
      • Clicking the character name displayed in the raid warning for Lightning Conductor during the Omnotron Defense System encounter no longer brings up the tooltip for the spell Lightning Conductor.
      • Maloriak’s Magma Jets correctly have a cast time.
      • The effect of Maloriak’s spell Consuming Flames should no longer be inconsistent with its combat log tooltip.
      • Maloriak will no longer interrupt himself when speaking during transition phases.
      • The voice-over text now matches the voice-over for Lord Victor Nefarius’ post-Maloriak kill speech.
      • Corpses of Animated Bone Warriors no longer float above the lava during phase 2 of the Nefarian’s End encounter.
      • Nefarions voice-overs should always be audible when standing in the Vault of the Shadowflame.
      • Chimaeron shouldn’t enter phase 2 prematurely.
      • Chimaeron thought he had 3 heads, resulting in 3 separate sleeping animations. He now knows he only has 2 heads.
    • Blackwing Lair
      • The gate at the entrance of Blackwing Lair correctly opens after Chromaggus is tamed as a pet.
    • Caverns of Time
      • Human Illusion: This effect is no longer applied to worgen.
    • The Deadmines
      • Admiral Ripsnarl can no longer be pulled off the top of his ship without resetting the encounter on Heroic difficulty.
      • Defeating Captain Cookie should no longer despawn his cooking pot or leave his corpse floating in mid-air.
      • Foe Reaper 5000 should no longer arbitrarily reset the encounter.
      • The achievement criteria for Prototype Prodigy correctly resets after a wipe.
      • It is no longer possible to avoid detonated charges without leaving the boat during the Vanessa VanCleef encounter.
      • The buff aura applied with random internal information in the tooltip when players access the ropes during the Vanessa VanCleef encounter has been amended.
      • Fixed a bug where players would sometimes have mounting issues after engaging Helix Gearbreaker in any incarnation.
    • Grim Batol
      • The Twilight Beguiler’s ability Deceitful Blast no longer ignores line of sight.
      • It is no longer possible for Forgemaster Throngus to not choose a static direction to channel Flaming Shield.
    • Halls of Origination
      • Spatial Anomaly now drops loot.
      • Multiple Heroic items dropping in the Halls of Origination had level requirements that were too low and have been updated.
      • Players should correctly receive the achievement Faster Than the Speed of Light if they die prior to the party meeting the criteria.
      • Setesh’s Chaos Burn void zones should now be viewable by players with projected textures disabled.
      • The Setesh encounter will now fully reset properly, even if his minions are more than 300 yards from him when he resets.
      • Curse of the Runecaster debuff nowa deals damage as its tooltip states it will.
      • The Sun-Touched Spritelings and Sprites will no longer retain the Pyrogenics buffs after death.
      • Sun-Touched Servants and Sprites will no longer die without spawning creatures if they are stunned right after they cast Disperse.
      • The Celestial Familiars summoned during the Isiset encounter are no longer classified as humanoids.
    • Icecrown Citadel
      • Kinetic Bombs used during the Blood Prince Council fight will no longer behave oddly if they spawn near the door at the entrance to the room.
    • Lost City of the Tol’vir
      • Characters hit with General Husam’s Hard Impact ability should now always slide down the pillar they are flung into.
      • Lockmaw shouldn’t Evade and despawn if pulled onto the steps directly behind his starting location.
      • Several line-of-sight issues have been corrected around the Sanctum of the South Wind.
    • Scarlet Monastery
      • The courtyards in the Library, Armory and Cathedral wings should no longer have portal errors.
    • Sethekk Halls
      • The door leading out of Talon King Ikiss’s room should always properly open.
    • The Stonecore
      • Fixed a bug that made Ozruk’s Shatter knockback component 10-yard range while the damage had a 15-yard range. Both are 15 yards now.
      • Earthwarden Yrsa has been reminded she’s a dwarf and now speaks like one (instead of using a draenei voice).
      • Crystal Shards spawned by the Crystalspawn Giant should now immediately despawn after a wipe.
      • The particle effects used when Corborus submerges below the ground should no longer cause performance issues.
      • Players shouldn’t receive a random error during the High Priestess Azil encounter.
      • High Priestess Azil shouldn’t be able to Force Grip players through the altar.
      • Killing a Stonecore Earthshaper that transforms into a Force of Earth now correctly awards loot.
    • Stratholme
      • Archmage Angela Dosantos’s portal at the end of the dungeon should no longer suffer from functionality issues.
      • Willey Hopebreaker no longer plays extraneous “I’m dying” sound variations simultaneously when a Scarlet Cannon is fired.
    • Throne of the Four Winds
      • A client assertion issue which could occur during the Al’Akir encounter has been corrected.
      • Ravenous Creepers should now all despawn if the raid wipes while they’re spawning.
    • Throne of the Tides
      • Players can no longer bypass the tentacle knockback area by being super sneaky with their abilities.
      • Ozumat’s Blight of Ozumat can be partially resisted, but can no longer miss players.
      • Lady Naz’jar’s Geyser should no longer potentially knock players outside the boss room above the geometry of the dungeon.
      • Commander Ulthok’s Dark Fissure effect should now display correctly when projected textures are disabled.
      • Poisoned Spear: The impact of this damage has been reduced.
    • The Vortex Pinnacle
      • Players who enter the dungeon through the instance portal are now given a means to exit after defeating Asaad.
      • Cyclone used by Wild Vortex should no longer be removing some aura abilities.
      • Minister of Air’s Lightning Lash is now properly cast even if a player is not in line of sight.
      • Skyfall Star now leashes and no longer keep players in combat throughout the dungeon if engaged and not killed.

There is your proof so your point is moot.

1 Like
11

Depends? My friend had it in the first 2 weeks. But obviously not at max ilvl due to lack of valor and/or vaults if that’s important to you.
But why is BiS even relevant if the first thing you are going to do is to quit?

That’s bs. People had a few tries and if people kept failing, people left groups as well.
Now, especially at lower keys where people are learning mechanics, you have enough time to finish the dungeon even if you fail some mechanics. At higher keys people are simply expecting you to know the basics and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that.

You might find it toxic that people leave a group. I find it toxic that people don’t respect my time and join my group without knowing the basics.
Just yesterday I had a healer (while I was playing on my Rogue) in AA14 who did only 3 explosives in the whole dungeon not knowing it’s a healer job. I ended up doing 100+ and obviously losing tons of dps while remaining #1 dps. He then started talking non sense how his 27k hps were super high and he simply couldn’t do more explosives… well luckily I am a healer main and I know better and I tried to explain him his mistakes. He of course refused to listen because he thinks he knows better. Now that’s toxic.
What did I do? Well, since I didn’t play my healer for a while, I thought maybe I am in the wrong and some stuff changed that I am not aware of? So I jumped in a AA14 pug group. And surprise, suprise… nothing changed. The hps of 27k is not high, nor is doing orbs impossible or even remotely hard for a healer.
https://imgur.com/gbiEVy3

Yes the bosses did drop an item but it doesn’t mean anyone needed it. You are suggesting like only items dropped that are needed by the players, which is simply wrong.
If you are trying to say that only items dropped that someone could have equipped (theoretically) then the statement makes no sense because it’s not like in M+ you get an item that nobody can equip.

Wrong again.
Except for HoV all dungeons have just 3-4 bosses.

Yes, it is nice. An experienced group can do a dungeon really, really fast, depending on the difficulty level and 2 people out of 5 get loot. That’s insanely great.

I think you confuse this with heroics.
M+ are different depending on level difficulty, something heroics never had. On top of that you have different affixes every week which change the dungeon experience. That’s an objective fact.
Also, you don’t need the highest ilvl possible, nor do you need 8 dungeons a week in order to play high keys.

I honestly don’t remember a heroic dungeon ever being hard except for in TBC where most people simply had no skill or experience in WoW.
I also don’t understand how you can compare heroics to M+. Not only is the variety worse but you also couldn’t get the highest ilvl there. So what exactly are you trying to compare?

1 Like
12

Deadmine’s
Shadowfang keep
ZA
ZG
all revamped.

If you are going to talk about Cata atleast do facts i have listed offical note’s for you from blizzard.

13

Getting out of hand? The ship is already on the ground of the sea

1 Like
14

No.

We heard of that before we started doing heroics in cataclysm and then we were like “wtf they talking about?” and then we just steamrolled through them without CCing.

Like, within a week or so we had done pretty much all the heroic dungeon achievements as well. We even did the last boss in tol’vir with all 5 people at the same time, we weren’t aware you could just do it 1 person at a time so we went 5 people at the same time, it was rough to heal but perfectly doable.

Bruuuuuuh, no. It was easy even first week of the launch.

2 Likes
15

Infinite progression, yes. That’s the point of mythic plus. It’s designed for players like me who want endless challenge and never want to be ‘done’.

3 Likes
16

I mean you gave a Stonecore video, which yes was the hardest dungeon out of them all, and the ‘deadly’ thing was the dwarf mob turning into the stone, and doing unavoidable aoe. If you simply interrupted that, it wouldn’t happen, so no need to cc etc.

Don’t tell me you spent 1 hour on average in the dungeons. This is just a lie. Only dungeons I recall spending an hour in, were ZG / ZA at start. Rest, never, even if you had some deaths. Unless your grp sucked and you wiped 2 times on average on each boss, then yes - it took you an hour. But I can’t see how different this is to today? Some dungeons are bigger blocks then others. For example in M+, I avoid Azure Vault and I will avoid it forever. I did ot once for KSM, and I’m gone.

And at the end of the day, why do you care? If the item is gloves 1, or gloves 2, I couldn’t really care less tbh. Yes, it’s abit different story with trinkets, but who cares anyways. ago.

1 Like
17

how exactly is my point moot? Most of the people found Cataclysm heroic dungeons so hard that they would insta vote kick you if you were wearing PvP gear, because this was evidence for them that you did not know tactics of the encounters within the dungeons and people were not going to waste their time with you.

I don’t see how Blizzard nerfing the heroic dungeons still changes it that many people cried out that these “nerfs” were not good enough.

For me, BiS is a pathway to follow, a goal in mind towards raiding. If dungeons are on par with raiding then I see no point in entering the raiding scene.

I guess that’s where our opinions lie differently in that case. If you want complete BiS from running dungeons then I guess M+ is a good system for you.

See, this is really the problem I find with M+ design. The way the “meta” is being done. M+ goes so high that you obviously pick classes and specs over others, which I find it toxic in itself. While I found heroic dungeons at that time challenging, it doesn’t mean we were default stuck at a certain point because we forgot to take a rogue with us or the healer doesn’t want to do its job.

That’s not what I suggested at all and I adressed this in my first post.

How often do you get duplicated in M+ or how often do get a ring or a necklace with worse stats for your BiS build? The same thing happened back then and the same thing is happening right now.

Not really helping the case.

Yes I know, did you also create or install all your weakauras required so the game can tell you when you’re standing in the fire?

You really need to invest more of your time into playing M+ at a higher level obviously, which can become tiresome. I was a tank in BfA and it became weary to look up the “meta routes” for that seasonal affix at a +10, and people wonder why there are so few tanks in M+ playing?

Then you ran the dungeon with friends who knew the encounters and the tactics. Because almost every boss in Cataclysm heroic dungeons at a one shot mechanics where you required atleast 3 to 4 people knowing the encounter beforehand. The boss in Blackrock Caverns, if not enough DPS were hitting the chains on the first boss, you’d get the entire group killed. Same for the 2nd boss that required people to switch places with the LoS of the ads.

And yet we still had 3 brand new heroic dungeons with 4.3? Alright?

Who’s this “we”?

Have you tried Diablo?

I didn’t find Stonecore the hardest of htat time.

Why would that be a lie? I often pugged heroic dungeons and they were hard for me at that time. I guess if you went in with friends it became easier, which is what I did in the end.

Meh, I’d rather see new things down the line than going back to old content and having to hotfix things because some trinkets were just better. Like the one from the vaults of the warden that saw a nerf.

18

You said

When i said they were nerfed and you refused to believe it , i even linked offical patch notes with the nerfs in them.

Just pointed out that you were wrong about the revamps it was 4 not 2 that was all.

19

Me and the people I did the cataclysm heroics with at the launch.

20

I have to ask do you remember what CTC cap was if you played tank back then because how you are speaking i have serious doubts you did.