I’ve been doing some skirmishes as MM, and I’ve been having a HUGE struggle to win 1v1 matches. Like, most specs either have very powerful passive heals built into their toolkits, or they can simply outheal my damage and full burst. Is MM viable at all in PvP, especially when facing 1v1?
Also, MM feels SO CLUNKY to play as, especially in PvP, with all the GCDs you need to use to burst, and Aimed Shot having such a long cast. The spec feels really off and clunky to play
I hate, hate the word clunky. it is so overused. And i disagree with you that MM is clunky in pvp, but to each their own.
MM hunter can do decent 1v1 and in arenas, but it BM outshines it due to obvious reasons.
I have managed to get somewhat decent rating in 2s with a pug feral, but i have not played much competitive pvp since i cba using LFG.
In 1v1, I’ve managed to win against all classes except druids, feral mostly. They are basically immortal 1v1.
I don’t know if you have any specific questions on what to do and how to improve, but my general advice is improve your kiting and worry less about dmg at first. Try not to blow your wombo combo at all costs. Try and bait some defs with only Trueshot, and use DT+ES+RA+RF combo after.
Double Tap and and Resonating Arrow (which you should be playing a MM, I strongly stand by my opinion that Venthyr should ot be chosen as MM) both have duration, so donetuse them asap, see if the enemy will use something against you (like disarms). Usually, when they see the big blue aoe, they expect big inc dmg, but you can delay it a bit.
This wont work in high rated arena, but sub 2k and in duels, what I did was fake cast AiS with DT, so they use their defs or interrupts, and then you have your double RF rdy.
I’ve found mages to be one of the easier targets for 1v1, since our dmg tears trough them and we have proper cds to counter Combustion. Not sure how it is going to go against frost, it’s been a long time since I’ve dueled one.
Against rogues it is a matter of timing your trinket and defs, but it is hard. Ferals are impossible to beat unless they are semi afk, but feral is basically immortal rn in 1v1 (and not too far from that in arena). Against rogues, practice trapping their SSteps, but this is something that comes with time (i suggest watching Jellybeans video on MM, he makes it seem so effortless).
Against other melee it is manageable. I’ve actually found arms to be easiest to kite - there is a reason why there aren’t double dps with arms warrior - no matter how overtuned they are, they need a healer!)
Don’t blow all your kiting tools back to back, try to space them and keep concussive shot as much as possible. I think the new concussive pvp talent will help us greatly against melee.
Against spriests and aff locks, always abuse Craven legendary. It is ridiculous. Against most other specs, honestly, Surging shots will make your burst much better, and give you some increase in sustain as well, and you can still pick FD pvp talent to soak big spells/abilities
(one of the most satisfying feelings as a hunter is FD soaking the Hunt or Divine toll).
Don’t trap on CD, and don’t overextend to trap. This is mostly an arena tip. In 2s and 1v1 don’t be afraid to use Scatter as a self peel, or to at least get that 1 AiS into scatter on your kill target. I barely use scatter on healers in 2s anymore, unless as an interrupt.
Hope this helps, and i am by no means a pro pvper, quite average actually. I deffo suggest Jellybeans, watching him play hunter is really really useful for learning.
P.S. You are probably aware, but there is a tip to maximize your burst.
If you get LnL proc, you can use DT+Explosive+Resonating+Rapid F and the you clip the channel in the last second and fire of the instant AiS, both RF and AiS will be affected with Double Tap. This can further be increased if you are playing Brutal Projectiles conduit, you w8 for the proc both BP and LnL procs, and then do the combo. If you manage to pull it off, you are almost guaranteed to 100-0 someone. However, you might opt to play Precision conduit for stronger buffed Arcane shots, which will be your sustain between cooldowns. Against platers Serpent sting does more dps compared to Master Marksman, but at the cost of a another gcd on a gcd heavy spec.
I hate, hate the word clunky. it is so overused. And i disagree with you that MM is clunky in pvp, but to each their own.
Ever since the BfA rework, MM has been incredibly clunky. OP is correct. This spec was perfection in legion and then they went and changed things that should never have been changed. Removing the extra focus, giving MM a bizzare slow focus regen nerf, making arcane shot and multishot focus spenders and making a steady shot focus builder as a castable ability and finally giving Aimed Shot charges and increasing its damage so it’s straight up broken at the beginning of expansions. Not to mention, piercing shot was nerfed, so there you go. Dead talent.
Now MM relies on rapid fire which is cool in concept, but in practice is a stupid spell that should not exist because of its interaction with other talents that make it insanely op, not to mention the shooting through walls trick, of course.
Dude, this is false. People detested the Legion design of MM. In fact, they detested it so much that Blizzard not only redesigned it for BfA, but hasn’t left a SINGLE thing from Legion MM.
I have stated this several times before, Vulnerable was a BAD mechanic. Not only did it feel like a watered down version of Colossus Smash window from fury warrior, but the mechanic itself was annoying…now here I would actually use the word clunky. It was RNG, it was annoying in interaction with Marked Shot procs during aoe. It made MM more immobile then in BfA and SL (there are mathematical calculations to prove this) because Vulnerable forced you to cast AiS much more often then with the curretnt recharge system. In the start of the expansion, the spec was carried with Sidewinders (which was also weird) which then got nerfed, and the spec never really recovered from the base, only being viable again with proper gear and legendaries.
The best part of Legion MM was doing 1.6 billion dmg on Southshore vs Tarren Mill brawl, i can give you that.
As for SL, MM focus regen was low and made Trueshot feel really bad, but they buffed it. As for the rest, I like the fact i need to pay a bit more attention to the focus management, in addition to positioning and cd management.
As for the shooting trough the walls, if you are referring to Resonating Arrow, i think it happens to be one of the most unique and flavoursome spells in recent WoW history.
MM is still the second most mobile ranged spec in the game, and if you truly cannot stand the fact that a spell called AIMED shot needs stood and casted, you have BM.
p.s. They did leave one thing for BfA, and that is Trick Shot mechanic, which was a talent in Legion.
ALso, Rapid Fire feels much better since they reduced the casting time. Double Tap into with Explosive and Kyrian arrow + Surging shots feels really powerful on AoE.
I think your opinion is very biased. Personally I did mythic raiding as MM all throughout legion and MM design was the best it has ever been and it only went downhill after. I spoke to a lot of people regarding MM and all of them shared my opinion to a T. So I dunno what people you spoke to, but my sample size has been quite large, I can can confidently say that my opinion is in no way biased, rather shared among a very large portion of the playerbase.
This being said, I already know you will once again try to force you opinion on me, so this response I wrote probably could’ve gone shelved, but w/e.
As for the shooting trough the walls, if you are referring to Resonating Arrow
No, I’m not reffering to kyrian covenant ability. I am specifically talking about Rapid Fire being able to be channeled through the wall. Which everyone knows is complete bs and incredibly unbalanced considering how much damage it can do.
So apparently you talked to a lot of people who miss Legion MM and somehow that is supposed to be an argument, but you call my opinion biased? I would love to hear about the sample size.
I however, am using an argument that if the spec was as popular as you claim, surely at least part of the design would have carried on into BfA? But it didn’t. It was completely reworked, literally nothing of Legion MM was left with the exception of Trick Shots aoe mechanic, which was a talent in Legion (and which is getting quite a bit of flack due to target restrictions).
Look, you loved the iteration and it is fine. But back in Legion, I clearly remember all the complaints on the forums.
And since you think i am forcing my opinion on you, i will write three reasons why people complained:
Vulnerable mechanic made MM quite a bit more immobile compared to BfA and SL. It was RNG and you were forced to pump 2-3, maybeee 4 AiS during the window. But forcing 3 each window would eff up your next Vulnerable vindow because you were focused starved. So if you had to move in both PvE and PvP, tough luck. With the charge system (which is by no means perfect) and cd limitation, you have some room to preplan your movement (repositioning and such).
Vulnerable in combination with Marked shot was even worse in AoE. Such RNG has no place in aoe. Marked shot was bugging all the time, because it could proc on a trash pack, and if the target on which it procced died or despawned, you would still get the Marked Shot proc lit up, but couldn’t click it. Since it is your natural response to press the shiny button, this lead to dps loses quite a lot.
Sidewinders - i am not gonna talk about how unfitting to the spec was to have two random snakes appear out of your weapon, since i guess that is subjective. But horizontal+vertical design of this spell made it super weird, it could pull stuff, you would miss some targets from the pack, etc. Sidewinders was primarily picked to reduce the RnG of Vulnerable, but it got nerfed. It took needing Antorus gear and specific legendary to make MM viable.
These three things were constantly mentioned and complained about for the entirety of Legion, and Blizzard obviously felt they needed to do a complete rework due to feedback.
ALso, when people call back for MM to be reverted to previous versions, usually Cata or WoD are mentioned, not Legion.
p.s. I didn’t mean to sound agressive or impolite, i am just really tired and cranky and should probably get some rest
I played both kyrian and venthyr alot, I disliked kyrian because resonating arrow burst is easily avoided. You can try to bait them to use defensives before resonating arrow by using trueshot and/or doubletap without resonating arrow, but then, in my opinion, does not worth getting resonating arrow.
I decided venthyr is much better playstyle and enjoyment-wise. Its not as easily avoided by the enemies because the kill shot procs are random, and they feel good in my opinion.
That being said, as a venthyr MM hunter 1v1, it depends alot if you can get the opener or not. Lets say the enemies are good players.
If a rogue opens up on me(camo isnt permanent), I can hold myself for quite a while but in the end I almost always need help from my teammates to help me defend the flag because they can eventually burn my CDs and kill me(In RBGs). However if I can get the opener, most of the time I win. However a good rogue will always get the opener on a hunter because camo isnt permanent, they can just wait.
If a boomie opens up, I dont always lose the fights because I can stall as long as I can while kiting behind obstacles. There are opportunities to kill them too, but it depends on if you can react to their convoke on time or not. If its a feral, its harder for me, but managable.
Against warlocks and shadow priests, I can usually survive and stall forever, but I cant kill them either.
Against ret palas, fire mages and ww monks, its really wonky, but if you can react to their burst on time and kite properly, you can survive and even kill them.
Against other classes/specs, I dont have problems.
You will never win all of your fights since it depends on player skills too, and an even skill means (on a perfect world) you would win 50% of the fights.
I would say its kind of slow, but I like it. I’m used to it since I only love hunters, specifically MM spec in whole wow.
Honestly, MM feels bad due to simple reasoning, I get LoS’d too much, I played Vs BM, 3v3 was left 1v1 with a 100%hp Vs 80% hp BM and he just never allowed me to get a single cast of aimed shot off by using very tiny LoS, I cannot chase down anything in PvP unless I am Vs warlock/Spriest.
This is pretty much exact weakness of hunter, chasing targets you have to kill asap, as kiting is used as nr 1 mitigation mechanic you die if you go in too close.
MM has a very scary burst, especially when paired with resonating arrow.
Just learning to kite, trap and using defensives correctly is the hard part of playing MM, which comes with practice.
I wouldn’t say burst is very scary, mage has better burst and better defencives.
MM advantage is being able to dish out damage while using LoS, and ability to preplan cc with traps.
Main weakness is that withouth AiS arcane/chimera shot damage is weak, so sustained damage falls massively unless you can get off aimed shots. And if you are getting trained by say an arm’s warrior you don’t have too many chances to get aimed shot off.
THank you guys for your insights. I really appreciate it <3
Haha i doubt you find a single decent PvE MM hunter who agree with you that BFA/SL MM > Legion MM.
Legion MM was very good, after the initial sidewinders mess. I have no idea why blizzard decided to turn MM into absolute garbage in BFA and while SL MM is slightly better than BFA MM it still plays vastly inferior to Legion MM.
But each to his own.
Guys, is Master Marksman worth using? It does so little damage at the end of arenas. Serpent Sting deals much more damage…
MM is the worst 1v1 spec now period. I cant think even 1 class that can win in a fair 1v1.Ok can win warriors. Realy bad self sustain and no stun. Yes it can kite but almost all classes has more gap clossers. And 1v1 does jot start at 60 yards away.This is gung. Yes you can delete someone when your cds up but with no stun he can defend.
I’m losing complete faith.
No matter how well I play, and no matter how well I Cc and prepare my burst, where it comes to 1v1 it’s impossible most of the times.
Druids top themselves up effortlessly with FR. Enhancements kill me in range while topping themselves in the process. Retris have access to endless WoGs. This season is made for either hybrids, or pure DPS specs with retarded heals/absorbs like mages legendaries. I’ve tried everyting I could. And Exhilaration heals for so little
And, like I said above, the amount of GCDs we need to use to burst is completely insane and makes the spec SO clunky to play
No,you use serpents sting in PvP and not master marksman dot.
Thank you. Been playing with it, because the other talent hits for literally nothing worthy. IDK why that talent even exists
It is a PvE talent for the most part. You could use it as kyrian for extra burst though.
well hunters have the problem that they cannot even sustain a dot (except by removing it) but slowly you will lose your health and you do not enough burst or dmg to insta kill someone before they easily can heal themselves up.
Hunters are almost like warriors, always need a pocket healer around.
the only good thing is that you can just run away and stealth / heal up while warriors will just die