I played in WotLK. I had 3 lvl 80, mage, warrior and priest. Mage had raiding gear, warrior, (tank) had ok gear, priest, (healer), only lvling heroic gear. My mage took longer to get a group than before, despite the gear, my priest was about the same, tank was instant. After 3 tries I never joined RDF with my tank withouth a good geared DPS guildie and the 2 of us could carry the whole group even if they was terrible, wich was 90% of the time. Withouth the RDF I got group as fast as the finder and with people I knew was good, nice people and added to my friends list.
My memory of WotLK is rusty, but I donāt remember Dungeon Finder causing many problems back then. I do remember absolutely hating the cross-realm finder that came later though.
Among all the alts I have, I also have full SWP bis, well almost full, prot pala, when I want to do daily HC I can just use macro ādaily HC swp bis prot lf T6 groupā and fill up group in 10 sec, I dont even change the macro, it just says daily hc ā¦
It can pull half of dungeon at once, deal more dmg with aoe than most single target classes and even green geared healer can keep me up, since the only thing I need is mana, and nothing can kill me anywayā¦ I can basically solo HCs at this point ā¦
And all that is extreme, since I can usually just ask in guild and get group going in 5 sec ā¦
Does that mean, just because I have easy time getting group, others dont deserve help?
We know that the situation sucks, it keep sucking for 2 classic games in a row, and will continue to suck even in wotlk, and we know that dungeon finder is exactly the thing that can, not outright solve the issue, but greatly alleviate it, and it already existed in wotlk, so why not use it ā¦
And unlike āhur dur dont use flying mountsā situation, that is actively hurting you ā¦ you can actually not use RDF, you even commented the example yourself, for people who want their āsocial interactionā¢ā or simply want quick cleans, its still much more effective to simply find group manually or grab bunch of guildies and then join for RDF ā¦
Which is something majority of people who have no issues with finding groups now, going to do in wotlk ā¦ while people who cant get into groups now, will have at least some assistance ā¦
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This is a game. I play it for my own enjoyment. I donāt have a problem with helping out people, but I donāt find it fun to babysit idiots that purposely pull to much, overaggro, pull when I wait for the healer to get back mana and is just rude or completely silence. In my experience 80% of the people in RDF belong to one of these categories. Why should I spend my valuable time getting them marks, when they canāt even be arsed to make an effort, but expect to be carried through a dungeon and blame tank or healer if they die or get close to dying due to their own idiotic behavior. I donāt care if people donāt have the best gear, but I DO care about people attitude and willingness to learn and better themselves. Most people in RDF donāt care and only want to be carried.
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Exactly the reasons why I donāt tank PUGās any longer - and RDF is nothing but a glorified PUG.
I mean, letās not pretend this kind of stuff doesnāt happen in non-RDF pugs either. Just today, in SV, an enha shammy complained that he died immediately without ādoing any damageā. Then I checked meters, and the two nagas that oneshotted him both had Magma Totem dmg on them. Thatās just how people are, and if youāre not willing to cope with it, then pugs in general arenāt for you - with or without RDF.
Thankfully, WotLK dungeons and class design is a bit more forgiving than TBC - or at least it was, who knows what kind of ridiculousness will Blizzard pull out of their behinds with their āchallengesā?
I have exactly the same feeling towards groups on tbc without rdf ā¦ look for mgt group ā¦
6541684 groups, orb res, bag res, mount res, pet res, shard res, vial res, unwated res, bps res, also we take only prot pala as a tank and also be full SWP ā¦ like yea sure, I am gonna carry your scrub group while you snatch all the stuff even if its completely useless ā¦
was really looking forward to get rid of blues res and ātank serviceā with rdf, but hey lets have people holding groups hostage again ā¦
kicking griefers and afkers works just fine and 30 minutes deserter beats 2 hours of making group and then getting your ID wasted when someone ragequits after second boss ā¦
Dont even have me start about raids ā¦ 7 arcane mage monkeys sitting in group, circlejerking on their shares and cuts while they wait for someone who can solo tank, has full swp gear for kara and still buys all the items since they are all ācarriesā ā¦ xD
If you were not playing on a mega server you would easly not have that experience, not that many GDKPs happening on Mirage for example way more SR runs and badge runs in Kara for example than there is GDKP runs going on here, just becouse you are playing on a server where the social aspect is all gone dosnt mean that everyone plays on servers like that.
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I wanted to write longer reply but nvm not gonna make people read it xD ā¦
#1 I have alts on more realms then just firemaw/gehenas, and speaking of mirage or pyre-something? (dont remember my own realms xD)
Yes there isnt 800 gdkp groups and 2 normal groups ā¦ instead theres 1 gdkp group and 2 normal groups ā¦ thanks
#2 I didnt turn gehenas into 99,99% horde realm when I made my alliance chars there at start of tbc ā¦ and also that gdkp guild I run with on firemaw has billion times more "social interactionā¢ " then any of these no rdf gnomes ever had on their realm ā¦ constantly online on discord, perma spamming, waking up to 500+ messages almost every day, people racing each others times, flexing their drops and gold pots or simply joking around all day ā¦
The thing is that what you described with,
and
Seem to be a way bigger problem on the mega servers than on Mirage, seeing as most people actually make sure they get to know a few tanks and a few healers that they can ask even if they are not in their guild for things like a HC run you dont get the āI res everything guysā kind of groups that people keep complaining about, and sure at the start of phase 1 some people did runs like that but seeing as they had a way harder time finding people to join those groups they have basicly died down.
Yes it sure is, bigger realms/servers/games/whatnot will always have also much higher proportion of scammers, I fully agree with you on that ā¦
But the issues still exists ā¦ is it mandokir? I think? ā¦ I still dont have my bis ret pala relic, because the only way how to get into blood furnace is group of 5 paladins, all needing on it and then they instantly leave because noone wants to do long, boring dungeon where trash hits harder than T5 bosses ā¦ even with daily HC quest for BF almost noone wants to go there ā¦
And on smaller realms its also much harder to find tanks/heals, who are already a limited resource ā¦
Thats more of a issue with the design of what loot drops from where than it is with the actual system wouldnt you agree, lets say something actually good for others were to drop from the last boss in BF there wouldnt be a problem with finding groups for it, but sadly the only worth while thing at all in there is the relic so no one wants to do it if they dont have to or if they are not helping out a mate with getting it, I know in my guild we have had 2 retri paladins who have been getting people to come along daily just to help out, and thats a social aspect of the game for sure, a guild is not just ment to be a place where you raid but a community in and of it self
Social aspect of the game was already ruined, thus RDF emerged. That was back then, today is much worse. There is something else behind this Blizzard notion ā¦
Wrath heroics arenāt something that would need people to find a group for. They are there to zone in, walk through, get loot and get out. Itās not tbc where especially on launch you will wipe around and need an attune.
Which is why rdf is more than fine, since otherwise itās a waste of time
YES it really does. I hated it when it was introduced to the game back in thedays and since then I have considered this to be one of the major causes for the downfall of the game. Good think Blizzard kept it out.
You can argument all you want that people just spam lfm and then runā¦ but there is a difference and it was noticable from day one. Dungeons became pew pew in a way they never had been.
Being a healer went from being fun to mehā¦ just something to do for the badgeā¦
No it doesnāt. Maybe it was part of why the community is, what it is now (Which I doubt and itās just speculation. Nobody can prove or disprove this) but at this point the community itās ruined and no RDF or any other tool can change this.
Everyone who says different either just plays with guild and friends and wouldnāt even be affected by the introduction of the RDF or ran through TBC Classic with rose coloured glasses, only seeing what they want to see.
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To cite myself:
The reason why they dumbed it down was to adapt to the dungeon finder. I played too back then and remember as it should have been today the forums posts about this and Blizz answer. If they had not introduced dungeon finder, the game had not been dumbed down.
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This convo reminds me of back in Classic when people kept claiming that everything wrong with Vanilla was added in 1.12, whereas in fact most of the changes commonly attributed to 1.12 actually occurred in earlier patches.
People just like to remember history as they want it to be.
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OK I only played back then, I did not read forum posts or patch notes even 