He leaves and get 30 minutes ban on RDF…Never in my entire history of WoW i countered tank with “If u not pay i leave”.
OP there is no logical argument against RDF, the community is long dead. The community aspect was nostalgia glasses ppl had. This does not exit anymore, and because ppl are living with memories we gonna get obnoxious “group finder” with the same effect…HELL even worse :).
Yes it was.
Lol.
You know very well that that argument does not fly.
RFD was added at the end of the expansion so if it was to be added it should not be there from the start.
However, RFD goes against the spirit of the game and in my opinion should never have been implemented in WOTLK.
Well then I guess someone should tell you that
Also I wouldnt consider half of the expansion to be its “end”
Anyway it doesnt matter what we think, since it was part of the wotlk, and should be part of the wotlk again, simple as that …
It’s actually not as simple as that. It can be argued that RDF was one of the first systems introduced that led to the retail we have today.
Confused by what you mean by this. I quit retail because it can no longer be considered an MMORPG. It’s just an interface / instance game where the world is completely void of life. A place where the meaning of community has all been forgotten.
I don’t want classic to morph into retail again… even though the lack of action on the part of blizzard to deal with bots and gold sellers is causing serious issues… and the portal pass is screwing around with the integrity of the game…
First thing that led to retail we have now is vanilla
Ok… that’s like saying you can’t have GTA 5 without GTA. Yeah, you’re right lol.
So I happen to be in the beta and I posted this to the beta forum as well. I will just copy paste it here for the discussion
"I am in the beta. And played instances all evening. I used the RETAIL LFG tool you seem to enjoy to find parties. As a healer it was easy. What I saw was SW:P tank LFG, SW:P dps LFG (you know, the GDKP heroes) and then we traveled there.
Of course most of them were bored to travel and waited for the other to summon them. People were just saying “sum please hs on CD” so we had a great communication a la classic ofc.
The instance runs were great, we did have a chat about the beta state (irrelevant with the LFG system since I always try to start conversation no matter the way I found the party) and then after 2 nice fast runs the LEADER said to one dps “sorry mate I will have to replace you since a friend of mine came over”.
So he just kicked him (no other reason all dps were fine, no deaths nothing) and invited his friend. So that was HIS party because he just browsed the LFG window and pressed invite. it was HIS party to decide who to kick because a friend came over. Now, since you enjoy this kind of interaction I would say that “the more I read about LFG, the more I realize that they try to bring retail toxicity to classic” "
And in RDF how likley would it be that you even got 2 runs with the same tank in it? The optimal play for a tank (and for you as a healer for that matter) would be to leave the group and get into a new one so that you get more stacks of luck of the draw so that the dungeon can go even faster.
So you ran into one person doing that, you will most likley run into more people doing that over time but there are other people that wont do that as well, and you had 2 runs with the same stable group before anything happened that wont happen with RDF that often ether and after everything is said and done you can now remember who the leader was and decied to not join their groups again seeing as they kicked a perfectly competent DPS just to get their friend into the run, take some responsibility for how you reacted to what happened you are not just a passive observer in a group you are a participant you could have said something like “hey thats not ok” and have left the group but im guessing you didnt.
Yes you are right. And I will in the future. But this is not the point for this post (in general your point … is the point for others and me to get from this post but I digress…)
The point is that changing the LFG tool that we had back in WotLK will not make things better for us. RDF does not destroy anything that the current LFG in beta saves.
Somewhat likely actually. I remember many times that a random heroic group would just continue to the next one if it worked well together. Not every group of course, but maybe like 1 in 5.
When levelling in random normal dungeons, it was even more common, with some if not all members of a group continuing into next.
Well a lot of pro’s and con’s still i think to enjoy the game you need to find a group to play with. Which could be a social interaction. On the other hand server population needs to have a minimum to be able to find groups. Without a RDF it’s often impossible to find a group to the dungeon you want to go to or need to go to. Or any dungeon at all. I sometimes just logg of due to lack of groups in instances. So for smaller servers the RDF is a solution to a big problem. (no content to be done)
Just a healing specced druid on a very small server.
In what way does that belong in the beta forum? It has nothing to do with play testest.
And SW:P tank or SW:P DPS does not mean GDKP. I hope they remove your Beta access.
this guy obv adds all party players on fb.
pre made groups arent more social than lfd groups.
They should allow atleast the RDF for level 1-70.
It would bring back many quiting/returning players that dont want to boost their character but actually play it.
So u want it precisely as it was back in Wotlk where many specs were not functioning well or op?
No dual talent specs?
Youre playing a classic version which isnt the same as back then. Just take a look at everyones gold banking lol.
So ure also against the queueing for bgs? Yea, just travel to the entrance because its against the spirit of the game. Its 2022, the game is old. Ppl know 80% of the game and know how it all looks like. Ppl want to be efficiënt and want to have fun on a short basis.
With all respect but Warmane is not dead, even with the RDF on. Ye ppl buy stuff and its p2w but isnt tbc classic almost the same with the GDKP which are filled with gold buyers?
Things that could count as nails in the coffin until now:
Any of these aspects of the game could arguably harm the social interaction and outer world experience within an MMORPG. Every patch, every expansion brought changes than could be argued that it was a “MMORPG-nail in the coffin”. In the end the game changed and there are hundreds of nails in the coffin of “MMORPG”. However, most players are aware that not every change made the game worse. Its the same with RDF. Yes, it drifted the game away from “traveling” and was auto-matching players, but this was all already in the game for other aspects of the game. Nothing the RDF does is new or different in itself. Its just one more feature that was introduced to make the game more pleasant to play at the time it was introduced.
Blizzard even introduced permanent layering in classic, that makes players unable to meet, although they are on the same server at the very same location. How is that not hurtful to the game experience and social interactions.
Now Blizzard seems to intend to use crossrealm for wintergrasp battles. Its the same crossrealm/automatch issue that RDF would have.
Reducing every change in the community that ever happened on RDF and thinking not adding the feature will really make a noticeable change is delusional. If players really wanted a full-fledged MMORPG, then tbc is already far too broken. If anything, it would have to be a gutted vanilla version to fit the taste of hardcore MMRPG-fans.
Overall I liked this post you made. You are right that there are many ways WoW is streamlined when compared to older, more traditional MMORPGs. However, I don’t agree with this:
In particular, it’s the part about “this was all already in the game for other aspects of the game.” This is only true for random battlegrounds, and random battlegrounds are hardly social spaces where people meet friends. Not when compared to World PvP back in the day. I’m not talking about Tarren Mill vs. Southshore. I never partook in that. But I did participate in World PvP in TBC, WLK and Cataclysm, and World PvP always felt more meaningful because the players you fought against you’d often recognize, and if someone came to your aid when you were attacked you’d be sincerely appreciative. Then there was the concept of “World PvP guilds”, which were somewhat plentiful on my server.
Random Battlegrounds can be fun and has a higher replay value than random dungeons, in my view. You can’t outgear random battlegrounds, and players will always make for more dynamic opponents than NPCs. That said, if you were to remove the cross-server aspect then random battlegrounds would become more social because you would encounter familiar team mates and foes.
Want “proof”? Here’s a topic that might sound very familiar to the current discussion about the Random Dungeon Finder: https://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=276270. It’s about cross-server for random pvp in the MMO Star Wars: The Old Republic. Look at the pros and cons the various posters list. Which side is correct? Likely neither. But one undeniable truth is that cross-server does harm the social atmosphere, regardless if it is in pve or pvp.
It was harmful. On my RP-pvp server back in 2019 there was a guy who created a roleplaying-tradition that came to be called “Mahalo’s campfire” where players were encouraged to sit down and just chat around a fire. I attended many times but it was not unproblematic. He’d usually sit by the cross roads, and rather than entering in a matter that’s more organic I often had to whisper someone and ask them to invite me to their group so I could end up on their layer. This meant that many people likely never even had a chance to see the event even as it was happening. So yeah. It was damaging.
Ofc it wont help but it wont hurt to not have it in ether, I think having people just queue the entire leveling process form 70-80 would hurt the social aspect more (even though it would be good for me would cut down a lot on my leveling time as a tank), and also if people dont have to try to be social to succeed they wont be, its sadly all about incentivizing ether the social aspect of the game or the convince and I would 99 times out of 100 go for the social aspect being more important for the games health in the long run even if a lot of people dont agree with me on that.
This. So much this.
Do you know why there never was the WoW killer? Why LotRO, Age of Conan, SWToR, Aion and Warhammer online did not succeed?
Because people had found their friends and guilds in WoW already. Changing the game meant leaving everything behind. All the poeple you wanted to play with. People tried it out, but it was not the same experience, because they didn’t share it with those they knew. An observant person might even recognize that other MMORPGs grew during the time of Catyclysm, when the DF was very established and the social aspect died.
In other words: What would you rather do? Play WoW with your friends or any other game alone?
I was very well prepared to stop playing WoW classic once WotLK arrived. I told everyone that I would stop playing then. And now I changed my mind. Simply because I do not want to leave my raid mates behind. I want to keep playing with them. But many of them, if not all, refuse to play anything but WoW.
If they would agree to switch to another game, I’d leave. Those people are why many of us don’t stop playing WoW. THIS is why WoW was so addicting back in the day.
But you won’t find those friends, guild mates and raiding buddies in this game, if you never have an incentive, never have a culture for it and never have an opportunity to talk to your fellow players.