So many words to say you don’t care what majority thinks and instead want the game to be your way no matter what.
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Statistics can be useful, but the majority is not always right. For example, in 1967 there was a referendum on whether Sweden should adopt right-hand traffic, and the majority voted against it. Yet the politicians went ahead with the decision anyways and I think few Swedes today would argue that it was the wrong choice.
I looked at the polls you linked. I acknowledge them. I discussed them. That is way more than anyone from the pro-RDF spectrum has done to anything I’ve linked.
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I’ve read your links in another thread (or was it earlier in this one?) and even acknowledged that yes, they describe what effect RDF had on 5 man dungeons in Wrath retail when it was introduced. That is only tangentially related to the state 5 mans are in now, will be with the new tool in Wrath Classic and would be with RDF this time around. I claim most people already don’t socialise in dungeons and will do so even less in Wrath, they already suffer little consequences for their actions, and with further server consolidation, will do even less in Wrath. The damage your papers describe is already done.
Yes they went ahead and were proven right. Three cheers for them.
And it seems Blizzard is determined to go ahead and cut RDF completely despite the backlash and the polls. Will it prove to have been a right decision? You think yea, I think no. I am not sure how we even could measure who was right, other than maybe how sharply the userbase of Wrath Classic will decline maybe as compared to TBC? Either way it’s out of our hands and nobody from Blizzard will read this. So 
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There’s so many factors involved that people who’re against RDF can and will come up with arguments to say it’s not about it anyway. And you’ll even have people like Unduriel claiming they’re happy to see pro-RDF players go, so… yeah. If the ship ends up burning, it’ll sink before the last people still on board are done arguing about the cause.
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No RDF implemented
Casual players are forced to join guilds, although they dont want to
- vanilla fans: “being social is a good thing”
Casual players that wont join guilds quit, although they would like to play
- vanilla fans: “antisocial players quitting is a good thing”
Casual players need to buy boosts more often, because they have trouble finding normal groups
- vanilla fans: “GDPKs are more social than RDF”
- Blizzard: “GDKPs are a good thing and part of the classic experience”
Thanks for improving the game guys.
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So, some more info from beta concerning LFG/RDF…
I enlist myself as healer, in specific dungeons that change as I level. The new meta for sought after roles is:
- A guy that wants to do even a specific dungeon, list himself to all dungeons. This allows him to see all people (you only see the people that wants the same instances as you)
- The guy invites the healer/tank he chooses for the instance he has NOT listed for but who cares.
- You accept invite since you don’t even know what this is. It can be the guy next to you doing a quest, someone that wants you in the instances you want or The Guy. Of course although we have LFG in order to “talk” before the invite, NOONE talks. NOONE.
- If you are not careful, you can accept a summon to the instance The Guy wants (but you don’t). Yeah yeah, you should have been careful because there are as… wait… you are social because you use LFG!
- If you are lucky (or careful) enough and don’t get summoned, the guy plays the fool and since this is not RDF and is a social thing, he talks; “hey guys. gogogogo UK!”. One more for summons.
- You state that you did not queue for this instance and “whatever, leave then”.
Please realize. Toxicity or lame behavior is not because of the tools. It’s because of how the community has become now.
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And all of that is just going to get waaay worse once it’s live too…
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Can I interpret this as you agreeing that the Dungeon Finder did, in fact, do harm to the social aspect of the game?
You claim that the social aspect is already dead and that is why there will be no harm to the game by introducing the Dungeon Finder. Yet you meet people here on these forums whose experiences contradict your claim. So even if the majority may want the Dungeon Finder there exists a not-so inconsequential amount that does not. Combine this with Blizzard’s expressed desire to “Nurture and Protect Social Experiences.”
I think it’s the right decision, yes, but I don’t think it is guaranteed to work. It’s like with their plans for an increased difficulty for heroics; I think that the idea is promising, but the execution can still fail. If they up the difficulty by simply increasing the HP of mobs, or by introducing unfair and frustrating one-shot mechanics, then they’ve failed.
This new LFG-tool has to be user friendly. The thing they invented for TBCC was absolutely awful. Perhaps the purpose was to mimic the LFG-tool that TBC had historically, but since when has poor UXD become a hallmark of desirable game design? Maybe fewer would have been crying for the Dungeon Finder had they instead implemented a LFG-tool that wasn’t anti-user friendly.
I don’t know what this “social aspect” people talk about is, precisely. But yes, back in wrath retail, RDF did negatively affect how much people talked in the alreaady easy heroics and how they behaved as well because of cross realm. I just don’t think those effects will even be noticable for most people now with most players on megarealms and from how silen dungeons already are in tbc.
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So a bit less than half the people who are actively playing according to ironforge. pro are playing on the mega servers, the rest of us would also like to be heard. So for half the people social interactions dont exist any more but for the other half the servers are small enough for social interactions to matter, why only care about the people who have most likely chosen to play on the mega servers after they became what they are right now the mega servers are not the majority of the players.
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That’s a lot of assumptions right there. Is Earthshaker with 6000 Alliance and 0 Horde a megaserver in your calculation? Was ZT with 2500 Alliance and 1000 horde? Because I played on those two and neither had any meaningful interactions in dungeons past first 3 months of Classic Vanilla.
And did you just presume everyone on servers smaller than a “megaserver” doesn’t want RDF? They have the most trouble forming random groups. If anything, I would expect larger proportion of small server players to pine for cross realm than those on mega servers, where they can reasonably expect to form a griup via spam in maybe 30 min at prime time at least
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You were the one claiming mega servers, those are not mega servers at all, and from all interactions on the forums you dont seem to be that sociable your self so that might explain why you dont get any interactions you need to work for them but they are out there.
You are right, I’m not sociable in 5man dungeons, since that statement seems nonsensical to me. Work for what? I came into the dungeon for a shot at prebis item, a recipe maybe, or just for badges/xp/rep. I’m not there to socialise a single word more than is needed to complete the dungeon in peace, fast, efficient and with everyone satisfied as much as possible. If startegy or loot requires speech I speak, otherwise I just greet everyone, praise exceptional play and say goodbye at the end. I socialize on guild discord, in guild chat and in guild raids. Not with randos in a 5 man.
The thing is, with this attitude, I am still by far the most talkative person in 95% of my dungeon runs.
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Even though you talk a bit more than some people do in your experience (and in my experience) being the one that starts the conversations makes it so that people are more social and therefor you actually get the social aspect. I get that for a lot of people there is basically no social aspect to the dungeons but if you are willing to make it social people are a lot more social than most people think.
You dont really understand what people mean when they say having social aspect in dungeon run. I give you hint it have nothing to do with this nonsense deep conversations what you presume is what players want.
How about you don’t give me a hint, how about you explain to me in a couple of sentences what this “social aspect” means in your opinion instead of being snarky about it?
But why? Why would I seek something like that in a 20min random dungeon with random people? I have a guild full of people I know and talk to daily and raid with twice a week for that.
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It turns the 20 min random dungeon from something you do just to get it done (or just to get a item) into something that is a whole lot more fun (at least for me maybe not for you though). Im not judging you but im just saying that if you dont just see that dungeons as a way to get that loot or that badge you might just have a bit more fun in them and have some social interactions along the way.
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I just don’t understan it, on some fundamental level. Being social with strangers isn’t “fun”, it’s a monumental effort. It’s the price you pay for a dungeon not going smoothly. Suddenly you have to explain strats, calm people down, cheer them up so they don’t leave or don’t start accusing others of what went wrong. Come on guys, crap happens, let’s try this way:… We are doing great, let’s just focus up. Yeah that boss is one of the hardest, the rest will be a breeze. Yeah you can use rank one to flush them out. Pull that guy in LoS here behind the chain. Yeah you can slowly back off in my Blizzard, that way even our green healer can keep you up.
No you really should pass that to a healer, it’s main spec for him, and look what he’s replacing. Gratz, I knew it had to drop for you eventually! Shat port coming up, awesome job guys, see you around!
And it is all met with silence. Not so much as “ok”.
Just typing it for this forum post makes me tremble with exhaustion. I got my last enchant from Arca HC 2 days ago. I nearly cried as the huge burden fell off my shoulders. I don’t have to type those things anymore, not for couple of months at least. Yeah I guess I’m not social.
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Really, it doesn’t matter how user friendly they can possibly make it. It will still boil down to how people will use it. And mark my words, it’s gonna be even worse than in tbc and it’s version of lfg.
Here’s one good example:
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It’s like talking to a wall…
How often do I have to repeat it.
The “social aspect” is not telling your damn life story while doing a 30 minute dungeon run, neither is it writing “LFG Tank BF HC” and “Shadow inv” the social aspect comes from ACTUALLY HAVING TO TALK TO OTHERS TO FIND A GROUP!
This little detail, no matter how much you write, keeps it so it is normal and expected to actually approach others if you want to do something in the game.
Keeping it normal to approach others, shapes our expectations of ingame interactions. And right now it is normal to just whisper people, asking them whether they want to join or to whisper people to ask if you can come with them.
Take that away, replace it with the dungeon finder and it becomes weird. Because suddenly you’re asking yourself why that person is asking you specifically for something, when all they need to do, is press a button and get a random bunch of people.
You will perceive the whole thing a lot differently and it will reshape the ingame culture into something less social.
Do you finally get it now, or are you just strawmanning trolls?
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