While you dont think it matters, I think it does. If a minority votes for a custom CHANGE, and it harms the game experience of the MAJORITY, it definitely matters.
Just because people will eat even disgusting food, if the other option is to eat toxic food or no food at all, doesnt mean they prefer disgusting food over pleasant food. So just because players will not quit because of a significant downgrade, doesnt mean its anything close to being good for many players. Even if they dont quit on the spot, many are more likely to quit later on.
Those who would quit because of RDF, which I personally think are less than the other way round, would only be players that hate wotlk and its original design to begin with. Those players have still vanilla servers to play on. Wotlk fans only have private servers or the option to quit.
And the argument that RDF equals retail is not even a troll attempt. If you see no difference between original wotlk and retail, just because it shares one feature, you are either clueless or delusional.
You mean like mythics that are one of the main mechanics of retail and are literally manual group making, even including that super âclassicâ tool that will now be added into wotlk ?
RDF is just a tool that doesnt alter gameplay content wise itself, but only the process of finding a group. Its a tool to enable the content and not the content itself. Analogy wise its like a spoon for a soup, its a bus that takes you to your destination faster, not changing the destination itself. You want that all have to walk there and argue that if you take the bus, the destination is different. Complete nonsense.
What I am arguing is more like the butterfly effect. Iâm arguing about all the various cogwheels and how they work together. Much of which is neither intuitive nor immediately visible.
Like my analogy with walmart has shown you, the mere existence of it can alter an outcome for you, whether you use it or not. In this case itâs about creating a new normal. A different way how we interact with each other.
You can pretty much see such differences in various cultures around the world. Different circumstances have different effects on our behaviour and expectations. Our Culture.
The RDF does not just add a way to find groups, it takes away something that was previously necessary to find groups.
And now weâre in a much different territory. Because the taking away of something has effects aswell. For example if you would give every possible spell in the game to every possible game, you might add everything to them, but in the process youâre taking away class Identity, Class-Fantasy, weaknesses and strengths. This will, of course, fundamentally change how we play the game. And it will alter our expectations how others will play the game. You might say âyou can still just use warrior abilitiesâ. But itâs quite obvious how this is wrong.
Weâd be gimping ourselves tremendously if we would still only use the abilities of one class. Others would just see us as someone who is âplaying the game wrongâ, and that perception will have an impact on us.
It will also require the whole game to be completely rebalanced around the new Munchkin-Class, so mobs might even become too strong for our Warrior-only-Playstyle.
Or maybe the game becomes too easy, and despite only adding something that nobody is required to use, will lose itâs appeal because itâs just not fun that way.
With the RDF itâs quite the same. There are many cogwheels in this game, and if you add one and take one out, others might stop turning or even change their direction.
This just shows you talk completely out the backside. Retail is all about manually making heavily gate-kept groups for mythic+, buying spots in ahead-of-curve raids for massive amounts of bought gold and casual expansion tourists running raid finder raids once. Hardly anyone even uses 5 man dungeon finder for anything but a couple levelling dungeons.
Wotlk is a completely different experience with guild-run raids and easily accessible 5man dungeons via RDF, or it was supposed to be anyway befor Blizzard decided to butcher it by removing itâs core QoL feature and replace it with mythic LFG tool copied FROM RETAIL.
It is the people who prefer manually making groups with the new tool who would much more enjoy the mythic+ experience of Retail but instead they want to ruin the game for us WotLK enthusiasts.
No. RDF and LFR still open up pretty much all content to anyone without ever even pressing enter to use the chat.
Youâre talking about the very endgame. So the problem I describe still exists, but the additional design adds more problems to the whole thing. But thanks for telling me. It shows very well that we must never allow the WoW-Token to come to classic and proves that all gold buyers are scum that need to be reported and shunned by the entire community.
By the way, I am not in favor of the new LFG tool. I think itâs not needed aswell.
I do not enjoy doing the same thing on multiple difficulties. By the way, even if I would find the Mythic+ stuff better, pretty much everything else I despise about retail.
Cross server
Quest phasing
Very Railroady quest design
Lore Retcons
New art design
Leveling âexperienceâ
But if youâre correct you might understand my problem. Classic, without the DF is pretty much the only MMORPG like this. Almost all MMORPGs have some kind of dungeon finder now. And I find none of them appealing because of it.
So if Classic takes the same direction now, there pretty much is no Game for me and likeminded people anymore. And you may see it the same way, because retail and all the other games might have a feature (and maybe itâs just art style) that ruins those games for you, and WotLK would be the only one. But you have so far played TBC without it. I would dare say you can manage without RDF. So that would the the lowest common denominator.
This is no valid argument, because it can be used against any feature, any change that ever happened. To say âIts the butterfly effect and changed the community and the game and caused everything that happened afterâ is only used, because its so generic, than it can be used on anything and since its not based on facts, but a âwhat ifâ, it cannot be proven or disproven.
This would be true, if we didnât have origianl WotLK back then. In this case we already know what cogs turn each other. Itâs not a âwhat if?â. Itâs a âLast time it happened this way.â
There were multiple changes within wotlk and wotlk already had a completely different design philosophy and target audience than vanilla. Just because you blame everything that changed on RDF alone, doesnt mean that it was the RDF alone. Most of the game and the community had already changed even before RDF was introduced.
There were no changes that changed how we interacted with each other in the game. If you have a another plausible explanation what caused and how that change of the community happened, Iâm listening.
Wotlk was designed for the casual players who prefer to just play a dungeon and dont want to socialize as much. Dungeons were designed to have less trash and be shorter for this target audience. Battlegrounds were queueable from anywhere. Raids had different difficulties, so they were easier to clear for less committed players/pugs.
This is the playerbase, that is argued to have come into existence because of RDF, while in reality RDF was designed, because these players were already there.
Yes, I most likely will play it to raid Ulduar and ICC with my guild. I just wonât even touch 5man content with the new tool, outside of running each heroic once with a guild group for the achievements. I suffered enough in TBC to never wish to inflict group-making on myself again, with even more discriminatory tool. Luckily, afaik, there are no rare recipes or items that are bis past phase 1 in wotlk dungeons, so I can just skip that part of the game. I expect many will.
Iâll just list myself as dps for daily hc with my gear score as a comment. Since my GS will be close to highest possible in each raid tier, and mages do good AoE, I expect to be picked up well before Iâm done with my dailies each day. I donât expect to say a single word in any of the daily dungeons. Not even INV or BYE. In fact Iâll make a point of it. Some Social Aspect, eh? Of course I wonât level any alts and wont run any heroic that isnât daily, but who cares, right? We saved the social community aspect!
And this is quite the interesting take. Because I would argue that the subscriber numbers tell us otherwise. If you were correct, the subscriber numbers wouldâve gone up, because the game appealed to the casuals that were already there and nothing changed.
But the subuscriber numbers were not going up. They were leveling out. That means we probably have people coming in and people leaving at the same time.
If the crowd you talked about was already there, but the social gamer was leaving, the numbers wouldâve dropped. But if the social players left and the casuals joined, that would explain the evening out a lot better.
So youâre killing the social aspect on purpose, just to make a point? This shows that you are the very reason I donât want the game to be designed to appeal to people like you. Youâre spiteful. By your own admission.
Of course I am. I suffered throught 3 years of making dungeon groups. I loathed the experience, but I stayed put because I enjoyed other aspects of the game, namely raiding with my guild. And just as my suffering was about to come to an end with WotLKâs dungeon finder, just as I was about to level some alts via dungeon runs and do heroics with guild alts just for the fun of it, the feature I waited for, pined for for literal years was snatched away from me at the last moment to the sound of cheers by people like you on the forum. How could one NOT be spiteful after that? Screw your social aspect, I hope the entire 5man dungeon scene withers and dies after becoming intolerable toxic mess of gatekeeping. Iâll get through to my daily hc, donât you worry, Iâm a dream dps, silent and efficient.
