I think so too. I didn’t see anyone asking to bring WotLK Classic without RDF. Blizzard opened pandoras box.
I think the RDF isn’t in the game because of some technical issues. And since the outcry would have been much bigger, if they admitted that, they just brought that fake argument of keeping social interactions in the game. So now some people think Blizzard values their opinion and they even protect that stupid decision. Completely ignoring that the new LFG-Tool is much less social than the RDF and even regular group building.
5 Likes
But but the social aspect. They think its social to say hi, lets go, bl, mana, ty.
Or this guy is bloody serious and adds them on fb after the dungeon.
Its just funny how some guys defending blizzards decision while its so wrong in all leveling ways.
3 Likes
This could very well be the real reason yea.
3 Likes
RDF does not ruin the game its the LFG tool that allready is ingame and spamming /Lfg global. sitting there posting brainless for 30 -120min for groups and no one wants to join, an RFD whould solve those problems like it did in Original Wrath, when you could get groups at any given time by just queing up for either Random or specific instance
You have to remember that Blizzard routinely lies to their audience. Remember how they said that won’t add faction change bacause it would disturb the RP community when a tauren suddenly becomes a gnome? And a couple of months later they were about to close down all RP servers, showing how much they ACTUALLY care about the RP community.
Remember how they said Diablo Immoral will only have cosmetic microtransactions?
Remember how they said that same bots in the same spot for months are the new char created on diferent account that just happens to have the same name and routine it had for months?
Remember how they said TBCC will come with new and upgraded dungeon finder based on retail one? The one they are now scrambling to barely get working for Wrath?
I remember.
And have you seen the state Wrath beta is in right now? You can’t even zone into eastern kingdom instances, learning certain inscription recipes and accepting certain quests disconnects you with no option to ever log back on that char.
I can bet that simply can’t get the RDF and Faction transfer and even the Disenchant button working. At all. And just came up with excuses to not come out and say we are understaffed, underfunded and we don’t even understand the code from 2008 properly.
This entire thread, 600 posts discussing benefits and drawbacks of RDF and it’s possible impact is a sham. A red herring.
They can’t get it working. We will never know of course, but I strongly suspect they are working frantically on getting all those things working, having one intern put together a useless reskin of tbc lfg abomination. As those Wrath features come online, Blizzard will do a song and dance about how a community outcry sweyed them and how very receptive and caring they are.
2 Likes
The worst thing is, you can go through this group building process for hours and often still end up without entering the dungeon.
The biggest feature of the RDF are GUARANTEED runs.
If the work that you put in would at least pay off in ther end, it would still be bad, but not that bad. And then people come and say stuff similar to: “Just work harder.” What do those people think I’ve been doing in TBC Classic?!
I’ve been probably working harder than 95% of players here in this board.
It’s just some people don’t know this problems, because they’ve been sitting in their ivory tower, because they were lucky to join a guild, that doesn’t pretend it’s deaf, mute and blind whenever somebody wants to run a dungeon. Or they are just tanks that want to pick the creme de la creme so they get carried through easy content.
Damn dude you stole my thunder xD I wanted to use all these examples like “rp servers closing, tbc dungeon finder, wotlk beta barely working” …
Yeah, all the rdf skub aside, blizz is trash company that is only abusing its people, if anyone thinks blizz is doing something because they care about their community, they must be extremely gullible …
Theres hundred little things blizz could have changed or improved, options and settings and interface, stuff like auction house, they are already bringing in retail stuff so why not functional auction house …
Instead they remove rdf, disenchant button and RP servers and say “we listen to community” … like whos community you listen to ? 4chan ?
3 Likes
exactly, i have spent 2 hours every night after work this past 2 weeks trying to get into dungeons and especially shattered halls since i have quest there and it have Bis trinket for my prot pala. but every night i get either 0 grp or a few warriors (dps) who wants to roll on the trinket even if they are decked out in full raid gear while i alone sit there with BoEs and quest items working my *** off trying on a High/full pop server
4 Likes
Hate to say it but it’s what Classic is supposed to represent. If you’re just running around solo at all times, never speaking to anyone else then frankly I see no meaningful distinction between you and an NPC (from my point of view).
Classic is not, and should not, be an all-inclusive game it’s just not what Classic is as a game, sorry. I never wrote that you don’t care about social experiences, just not the type of social experiences that Classic offers (read again and you’ll see I wrote about a very specific set of social experiences, not all social experiences).
Also, right now you’re making the “Darksouls should have an easy mode”-argument. I get the feeling you are opposed to that idea, but I could be wrong.
The idea is to prevent the current state of Classic to not repeat itself for the third time around. LFD isn’t helping. Read the Blizz blog post article.
(Plus, I never wrote that you despise any and all social experiences. You are active and writing here, after all.)
Classic should cater to the people that prefer the old school WoW experience…,…,…,…,…,…,… because that’s what Classic is designed for!
(Look at the text you quoted. I wrote “that social experience”, meaning one type of social experience. “That” and no S after “experience” means it’s singular, only one type of experience.)
Hot take (not really): That’s a good thing. I don’t want anything to do with those nerds, and those nerds don’t want anything to do with me, and that way it’s a win-win.
Some will get the short end of the stick, but that will always happen regardless of system used.
I honestly don’t know what you’re complaining about. Retail has the features you ask for. Classic has to exclude players to be what it is. That’s just how it is. Not everyone will like it and that’s fine.
Who says that, really? It is an MMORPG that gives you the freedom to do what you want. Not play how it is supposed to, by a part of the community :S
4 Likes
Nothing says "Social Interaction™ " like cutting off half of the playerbase …
I spent 15 years waiting for wotlk so I could play it 24/7 like I used to when it originally came out … and out of nowhere comes bunch of vanilla circlejerkers who abandoned their super glorified classic after two months and want to tell me that I am not the target audience …
Like come again ? …
3 Likes
Wow. You really like to define THE right way of playing this game.
3 Likes
That’s your own oppinion, nothing else.
Twisting things much? Far from all of us that wants RDF are asocial. We do however want to choose for ourselves how, when, where and to who we want to be sociable with. Not having your way forced upon us.
Classic arose because off all the people that year after year wanted to go back for nostalgic reasons.
Now when you and a bunch of others had a taste of that you want to change wotlk from what it once was to fit your vanilla classic gameplay.
Ah so here’s the real reason then. You are infact one of those gatekeepers that wouldn’t be able to gatekeep with RDF.
As you are more then welcome to stay in Vanilla classic, as that’s the game you like.
1 Like
LFD or No LFD both affect gameplay. People here arguing in favor of LFD claim “it’s how it’s supposed to be because it was in Wrath”. I honestly don’t know what your point is.
The number of players isn’t the deciding factor if there will be social interactions in the game. Those two are not related past the size of the server.
Don’t shoot the messenger. This is clearly the direction that Blizzard decided to take Classic. They have two WoW games, and if they are too similar it’s not great. You are not the intended target audience by official statements from Blizzard. No way around it.
If they add LFD, they act exclusive towards me. If they don’t add LFD, they act inclusive towards me. Both decisions comes with exclusivity. Pick your poison.
No. Blizzard made a big deal about their blog post where they outline their design philosophy for Wrath Classic.
This is what happens in retail. Classic however has a bit of a different appeal where you are forced against your will (sometimes) to be sociable. I don’t want “your way” forced upon me either, so I don’t know why this is an argument.
I was there. It’s not Vanilla that Wrath lacked LFD during the first three raid tiers of the game. You could just wait until then, as the gear catch-up mechanics are quite beginner/returning player friendly.
I wouldn’t put it the way you do, but yes, this is correct.
I believe that in order to have more freedom in an MMORPG I also need to be able to act on said freedom. If I can’t kick anyone at any time for any reason then I’m not free to moderate my experience. The LFD had to add in vote kick eventually because of this.
The LFD in comparision is more like your mom forcing you to participate in a play date. Some will find the play date very enjoyable, while others would prefer to choose themselves who to play with. Neither is wrong, everyone is unique. It’s just that retail already exists.
Again, Wrath didn’t have LFD until very late in the cycle. If you want to call everything before LFD in WoW “Vanilla” then that’s a you-problem. I really don’t see why we should pretend otherwise.
2 Likes
First of all that’s not a particularly shrewd speculation. I’ve expressed something very similar. It’s not difficult to imagine Blizzard going back on something – they’ve done so in the past.
But let’s take a look at that reddit post. It says at the very start:
Disclaimer: I do not want this to turn into a thread about RDF. This is only a thread about the specifics of the new LFG tool in comparison to what we have in TBCC and whether it resolves any of the common grouping problems we have currently.
It’s pretty pointless to say “TOOL BAD, GIEF RFD”. That entire post is feedback on a system that’s in development. The comment you quoted doesn’t contribute with anything meaningful to the conversation and can, at best, be used as a retroactive pat on the back should Blizzard fail with their ambitions in WLK classic.
But what if they successfully made a tool that threaded the middleground between the inconvenience of spamming LFG and having a group automatically created for you? Certainly it would be an improvement to the experience in TBCC, right?
The whole “I want everyone to have fun and you want to control others”-spiel.
Two things: first, the design of the Dungeon Finder has been mimicked by successive changes; the Raid Finder and cross-server sharding for open world. Again, my prevailing belief is that it is the cross-server aspect of the Dungeon Finder that’s doing the damage and not the automated grouping process itself.
Secondly, these private servers have way smaller playerbases than World of Warcraft did. This nullifies the issue of cross-server. For full transparency though, as I don’t want to talk about experiences I’ve not had; I’ve never played on any private server so I don’t know what the social climate is like on them, so I can only speculate that the relatively small size of the private servers is enough to counteract what I deem to be the most damning aspect of the Dungeon Finder.
That’s not really answering the question, though. You may oppose a change that creates convenience, but once it is in place you’ll be hard-pressed not to use it. Because you are not playing an MMORPG alone and what everyone else does is bound to affect you. In Retail this has led to a very cold social climate.
As for the advantages you mention, I’d say that you don’t really need those advantages to do heroics in a WLK environment. Unless you make the content more difficult – and if we do that then we run into the same problem early Cataclysm did with random PuG groups struggling to beat the content.
I don’t think the new LFG-tool was part of the question. But from my own personal experience, the Mythic Dungeon Finder sparked more social interactions than the Dungeon Finder does, and I think it is partly because of all the downtime you have as you wait for the group to fill up, as well as the downtime whilst travelling to the dungeon, and the fact that the dungeon is challenging and communication is sometimes necessary.
So I will take that as a “no”. I don’t particularly like the Raid Finder myself, but I think someone could use the exact same arguments for the Raid Finder as people use for the Dungeon Finder. If these arguments are true for the Dungeon Finder:
- It is inclusive in that it allows low gear/low skill players to play content.
- It is beneficial to those who have limited time to play.
- It prevents gatekeeping.
… then it is equally true for the Raid Finder. Yet to some the Raid Finder is too much but the Dungeon Finder isn’t. Where we draw the line of what is “too convenient” is very individual.
How could they possibly do that? I mean specifically by adding what functionality? The only difference between even perfectly crafted LFG tool and current bulettin board is that it announces your group that you lead to people automatically and you dont have to click a macro every 3 min. DPS still stare at ui and try to snipe groups with dps slots open, only to be ignored or they start a group that instantly fills to 4/5 and they still spam for tank in /2 and /4 just in case one sees it. How is that a middle ground? If Blizzard miraculously improves the tool to it’s best possible state it will be as good as an addon we currently have with incredibly minor improvement for group leaders. Far more likely, judging by it’s curent state, is it’s going to be flat out worse than what we have now, while cutting access to the global channel unless you use it. So that they can say: See! They are using it!.
It’s a disgrace.
1 Like
You know, the main reason I dug up these articles is because Krutoj asked for “proof”. Then the research is “old” or “biased” or whatever other excuse he cared to conjure up. We also have proof in blog posts written by developers, but developers are stupid and don’t know anything I guess.
It does not matter what I bring to the table because you will shoot it down by whatever means necessary – and before you do you likely don’t even bother to read the abstract. So who is biased here, really.
Come back when you find a single text, be it a research article, essay or developer blog that backs up anything you claim. I will do you the courtesy to check it out before I start screeching that it is biased.
Oh hell no it didnt, all you do is click one button, and unless you are fotm with bis gear, or even worse that absolutely stupid cancerous rio system, there is absolutely no chance you are getting into group …
Which ends with the same situation, garbage grouping + toxic, or rdf with fast grouping + toxic (and thats giving points to you, since rdf isnt even remotely as toxic as what we have now …)
1 Like
You can avoid fotm requirements, bis gear and the rio system by making your own groups. That’s primarily what I did and I had a lot of fun with Mythic Dungeons.
If more people did that then maybe things would be less toxic, but I guess it’s Blizzard’s fault. Be the change you want to see in the world, Meristu.
1 Like
You can make groups with RDF too, if you want to avoid casuals, leeches and ninjas …
Also what do you think will happen when people want to make their own group ? … they will ask for fotm class in bis gear … and thats absolutely unavoidable, because you will never know who you play with …
And the rule of thumb is “rather geared noob” …
2 Likes