Raid finder adds a whole new difficulty, thus cheapening the game. Also it removes one of the core reasons for guilds to exist and what most, the absolute majority of people use them for, that is, to organize raids. RDF just creates a group to a trivial side content while not changing it to any significant degree (I am sure most any proponent of it would be fine with removing luck of the draw)
See I can safely say MOST guilds are all about raiding because one can go to any server discord and see virtually all ads of all guilds on all servers mention what is important to them: when they raid and how they distribute loot. No mention of 5 man content at all.
Maybe people donāt want to be in guilds. Donāt they have a right to see the content?
And they will not be affected by the Raid Finder because they will want better loot from higher difficulties. The Raid Finder simply allows for more players to play the game.
I thought pro-RDFers were all about the inclusivity?
That was the original reasoning behind it. And yes, I find it hard to argue against. I personally find the ājournalistā or āstoryā difficulty distastful, but if raid finder were to be added in Wrath, I wouldnāt use it and just seek out a guild that runs Ulduar hard modes and Trial/ICC on Heroic. And I have no interest in what happens past Wrath. I put my money where my mouth is and donāt use systems I personally find objectionable.
In any case, Raid Finder is a Cata feature, and should Blizzard choose to first of all make Cata Classic, and then add it either in itās appropriate phase (Dragon Soul) or even at cata prepatch, you surely wonāt find me here arguing against it. Iād prefer a cata feature not being added to Wrath but I could with some effort ignore it if it were.
Honestly I never had issue with LFR xD ā¦
In that decade or so its in the game, I did LFR first time in BFA, to check out new raid, and then unsubbed ā¦
Aside from that I never had my gaming experience affected in any way by existence of LFR ā¦ its like saying my PvP experience is bad because there is unranked content in it ā¦
Without LFR wow would be ādeadā twice as fast, people seriously underestimate how many casuals play wow, and without easy accessible content those sub numbers would be much much lower ā¦
And if you think that without LFR more āhardcoreā players would stay in ā¦ absolutely not, we cant even settle on what we want on classes ā¦ WoW would go down the drain either way ā¦
That classic has to be vanilla design is not a fact and was not the original intend of the classic series. The first approach was āno changesā. Its because vanilla+ fans didnt want to play other expansions, that Blizzard reacted by considering to alter their design. People were running around from 1 to 60 in vanilla too. If you cant distinguish between a player and an NPC, only because RDF exists, you might not be as social as you think.
That classic should exclude players is your personal opinion, not core design of the game in any expansion. In my opinion, my argument is not comparable to āeasy modeā, its about that excluding bad geared players for their gearing content is not healthy for the game and that spamming āinvā for 30min is neither fun, not social.
I understand your concern, especially from a vanilla fans perspective. The game changed, but in my opinion the game is doomed once cata hits anyway and that wotlk is still the sweet spot, that lets social players be social and casual player play the game. You think its better to exclude these people, so you dont have to play with them. Thats your opinion, since you expect your ingame experience to be better without RDF, but not necessarily better for the game/playerbase overall, since players getting blocked might become less social and quit, because they feel excluded all the time and think the game is even less social than they would experience it with RDF. These are all hypotheses though, same as your predictions.
You personally think its good for you AND for the game that low geared players get no chance to progress in the game, without getting into a guild and getting carried. However, not all guilds are taking low geared players in and you say yourself you dont want to play with them, guild or not, possibly because they are holding you back. These players are definitely not winning experience wise, be it gameplay or social experience. Its only you that āwinsā.
The thing is, RDF is the solution for this kind of issue. Even low geared players, that you and like-minded players dont want to play with, can find groups and gear up and look for raid guilds in the process of when they have finished getting raid ready. Not adding RDF equals a āshort end of the stickā for a huge number of players, which could be avoided in this case.
You cannot understand the arguments for RDF, or you simply dont want to. There are many retail-features added and old, wotlk features altered and removed. If RDF was removed on retail, would you personally prefer the game? No, you woudnt, because its still a completely different game and game experience. Using RDF as an argument that todays retail experience is the same or at least closely similar to the original wotlk experience is borderline trolling.
So why is it fine that that a huge part of the playerbase get excluded and its fine that all these players dont like it, but if you dont like something, its automatically a huge problem and has to be addressed? Based on the fact you dont want to play with others because of superficial reasons like their gear or think its fine if these players dont have fun and get excluded, anything I can assume would be offensive in your eyes.
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The main argument is, that a big part of the game is unplayable for a large portion of the playerbase. And I donāt know how you still donāt get it after over 500 posts just in this threat.
So whatās the point in answering you if you donāt even read or just ignore the arguments others make?
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Wait, you tipped your hand here. So you do think that no LFD gives a more social experience.
ā¦ no? How is āI donāt like LFDā a prediction?
Thatās my point. If these guild make themselves known I will make sure to avoid them like the plague. MY gatekeeping will be on the opposite end - current gear is not important, but if youāre an elitist youāre out.
I understand the argument perfectly well. Iām saying you can go to retail to get LFD. Me understanding your argument doesnāt mean I agree.
Where do I sign up for this new retail?
No, the original Wrath experience didnāt include the LFD until late in itās cycle. The genuine Wrath launch didnāt include it. Itās not hyperbole to point out a fact. Not that I think this is a good argument to appeal to history, but there you go.
āDarksouls should have an easy mode to be inclusiveā-argument again.
I honestly donāt care about gear and spec. Iām a casual that is just looking for a fun time. If someone joins and starts complaining about someone not being meta enough Iāll kick them. Iād rather wipe 100 times in Karazhan than play Sunwell with elitist a**holes, if Iām with friendly players having fun.
Okay, if you canāt get into dungeon groups once Wrath has recently launched itās not a game issue.
Right now TBCC is in a terrible state, but the fix isnāt āok now the dungeons you donāt want to play is easier to get intoā
You can also go to retail if you dont want lfd
stop with this stupid argument, rdf came half way through and was there for nearly a year, with the pace blizz is ruining classic release dates, it would come in after 4 months anyway ā¦
its on front page, garbageflight and there are mythics that require manual group finding, enjoy and dont let the door hit you ā¦
That is true, but we wont be getting any fix for this situation from blizz, and RDF can at least help with these problems ā¦ no RDF is not going to help at all and is actually going to make the game worse, since you are removing original feature ā¦
I swear this is just one of the previous people just on different character ā¦
It was originally in wotlk.
It helps with current garbage situation in pve.
It doesnt prevent you to play the game in the way you want.
What you get as a reply is:
āgO tO rEtAIlā
and
āMuH soHCial aZpegTā¢ā
Yeah it sounds cool, I would also like the game more as it was in the past, but its not coming back ā¦
So letās talk about it after weāve seen launch without LFD. OK?
Youāre saying they will remove LFD?
No, LFD canāt fix anything past āok now the dungeons you donāt want to play is easier to get intoā
Yes and ? How is removing RDF going to change or help anything again ?
That it was in Wrath is not an argument. We know. It still wasnāt there at launch. Itās still not a justification for LFD.
It would make āok now the dungeons you donāt want to play is easier to get intoā possible, but is this the ideal state of Classic?
It does prevent pug groups from forming manually so thereās that. 
It does not, people will still be forming groups manually, since its more effective than getting 4 randoms ā¦
Everyone who is talking about how social they are and how active their guilds are, will just grab 2-3 people and join RDF and have even easier time than other people ā¦
also
what argument is this ? its not about dungeons, its about groups ā¦ I might be missing what exactly you mean by this ā¦
If you were to read the blizz blog post youād see what they will do to try and fix the situation. LFD doesnāt add to their solution, or even fit within it. Thatās basically it for now.
LFD is like a dishwasher. Maybe you can find groups faster if you do it manually, but itās passive so you can do other things while itās being done for you without effort. Which means effective time spent is drastically reduced no matter how you look at it.
Its you who thinks that RDF is to blame for everything in wotlk, not me. Wotlk changed many things that impacted the overall ingame experience and the impact of RDF on the social experience is quite low and only relevant in this aspect, because of crossrealm issues.
Your prediction is that not introducing RDF will have a significant positive impact on the social experience in the game.
I missed it last time too, but why is a newcomer with bad gear automatically an elitist or a nerd you dont want to play with?
Then you think you understand, but actually dont. You thinking that retail without RDF is the same as wotlk (and attracts the same players) and wotlk with RDF is like retail proves my assumption.
Same as guild banks in tbc, same as dual spec in wotlk, same summoning stones in classic, many features were added earlier. However, your argument is only relevant when it comes to time of its implementation, not if its added or not.
You stated you dont want to play with low geared players to have a better experience and now you say you are casual and dont want to play with āelitistsā. You even want to see everyone excluded from the game that doesnt fit your perfect picture of an MMORPG, because they dont deserve to ruin your ingame experience by having fun. Look at the mirror, mate, in my book you are an elitist too.
Yes but if my dishwasher eats my clothes and I have to spend next two hours washing them again and sewing them back together, I can still rather wash it manually ā¦
Ill leave the original here, for the lulz ā¦
Yes but if my dishwasher breaks my tupperware and Ill spend next half hour getting it out, I can just wash it in the sink manually next time and save double the time ā¦
jesus people stop with these xD
also ā¦ I do daily quests or bgs with lfg addon on side, and thats the glorious no RDF era of tbc, so something is wrong I guess ā¦
Holy Emperors dancing thyroid gland, look around, just in tbc section there is 464641413 posts about blizz ātrying to fixā something and completely mess it up ā¦
Theres literally post about firemaw being unlocked and they posted it day earlier saying āit was unlocked several hours agoā and its still not unlocked and they probably meant to post it tomorrow after reset ā¦
Dont forget they also wanted to nuke dual talents, they are absolutely clueless about what they are doing ā¦
YOU are literally sitting here, arguing AGAINST blizzard yourself, against the good blizzard, the one from the ye olde days , they must have known better, than modern type1/type2 microtransaction blizzā¦
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lol what. Did you see the current state of TBCC? I donāt know how anyone can call this scenario a āpositive impactā. This is what we got with no LFD.
What?
I never stated such a thing.
This is true.
OK not sure how this works in your mind. I wrote that in my ideal MMO there will be elitists, but that I donāt want anything to do with them
thatās why you donāt put clothes in it
Where did I do this? I have my own opinions, but when I pointed out that you arenāt the intended target audience I used Blizzard themselves as a source for my claim.
Oh damn you got me there xD I am actually hanging my clothes between replies, so I got myself confused ā¦
Point for you 
Or you justneed or want to run an unpopular dungeon as unpopular class on a low pop server.
Sure for the first month you will be fine, as long as you run the same dungeons everyone is running. After the first month it will also be hard to find or form groups for any dungeon.
And of course itās not a game problem. Itās a community problem as much as it is a server population problem. Still the RDF would fix it.
I am not even talking about the state that TBCC is in right now. I didnāt even play for months now. The problems started immediately with the release of TBCC. First just for unpopular dungeons, but after about a month it was for every dungeon, that wasnāt daily hc or needed for an attunement.
There always has been a huge problem with group building in TBCC. If you didnāt experience it, count yourself lucky. But donāt pretend it isnāt there.
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