Why?
Or it could not be those things.
TBCC sure worked out well. /s
TBC in ye olden days was also “just fine”.
Decorate the inside of a house before you start renovating it?
It took them 2 expansions to add garbage group finding tool that is worse than player made addon and wont even help with the issue it was made for …
I feel like I would be attacking you personally here, but if you cant look around the forums and see more cases of blizz failing than there is dalmatians, then I seriously cant help you …
But it could be, because for example, blizzards way of listening to RP players is completely nuking RP servers …
By the Omnissiah, it could even be worse, much much worse …
I never said we shouldn’t have challenging content in the game, but that’s what heroic raids are for. If you turn even entry-point content into challenging content, then you’re just going to gatekeep everyone who is behind the curve from ever getting to experience what originally was supposed to be the real challenging content to begin with.
In other words, my suggestion would be: let WotLK dungeons be easy and let people who want a challenge find it in heroic raids and hardmodes. Because otherwise people will just start asking for a baseline level of gear that newer people will have no chance to achieve as no content will be left for them to collect said gear to begin with.
I do believe there will be a decent increase in people that at least try, they will join into the casual guilds and when those no longer fill their needs they will look for better things ofc but from their experience with the casual guilds they will have a launch point where they might have a bit of 10 man gear and a few 25 man pieces a month or so into the game. They might even have a few logs showing that they have potential and with all of those things they can start to climb towards what they actually deserve to be in with their skills.
Not only the super casual dad gamer guilds take people in from dungeons, I would describe my guild somewhere between casual and semi-hardcore for example and we have taken in socials from dungeons. With our socials mostly joining in on pug runs in earlier tiers right now in tbc having them to fill out a spot if for example one of our shamans have to be away also helps a lot. I dont want more people to fall into being dependent on the at best gray market that is GDKP.
Whether or not its already been suggested;
If they want to remove or delay the RDF - fine. I get it for 70-80, but this is a golden opportunity to bring back some form of leveling that isn’t just around boosting, and you could argue it’ll be a lot more sociable.
Add the RDF for any pre-wotlk dungeon because most folk get tired of leveling once you’ve been playing the game for a substantial amount of time. This will remove the dependency of boosters (yes I know the ‘nerf’ is due) and also allow you to level 15-69 on ANY server, doesn’t matter the pop (provided it’s cross-realm) and saves the whole debacle of waiting 20-30 minutes spamming for that 1 last slot that no one cares about.
I don’t care about it in Wrath content as much, but it opens up a new channel of leveling whilst allowing those trapped on dead servers who haven’t moved off to still be able to play.
Who wants to spend an hour forming a group and running to ST, only for someone to have to bail and the cycle continues. The justification of it being less social, after playing since Alpha/Beta of the original WoW, I just want to enjoy the game. Life has changed as many who played the game and continue to have grown up and just don’t have the time to simply invest in hours for little progress.
Tldr; Enable RDF cross-realm for 1-69 content (pre-wotlk dungeons)
it’s way more than one per servers. There’s tons of us. And what happens is this:
Sometimes they then join real raiding guilds and (trust me, this happened to our guild multiple time) they get annoyed because, after 2 weeks of being in guild + Under performing + Not showing up on time with consumes, they don’t get BiS items over people who have raided every week for 2 years.
GDKP sets an unrealistic vision of how Classic WoW is. And its a shame, because the people who join early and do 10 mans with our guild to get gear end up being good raiders and enjoying themselves. Because they geared through learning mechanics and learning their class.
It has nothing to do with it. Its simple supply and demand issue. If there are players geared in t8 willing to join then players will demand such gear after others. If demand wont be there group leader will be forced to drop requarments.
That’s not really true, at least not on my realm. Even nowadays, the requirements most leaders ask for Karazhan are still significantly lower than ZA, and that has a lot to do with the fact every ZA is supposed to be a bear run. By making dungeons harder, even if optionally so, they’re going to cause most people to demand higher gear standards for people to join, and that’s bad since dungeons ARE supposed to be the entry point for people to start building gear in the first place.
most people dont use the forums and are not aware that devs will remove RFD from WotLK… even in their advertisement of WotLK they dont say it… lets see how this will go when people actually find out that current devs live up to their reputation of turning gold into s h i t…
That will be the only amusing part of this debacle
Your answers convince me that you have no actual arguments. You just like to argue.
Bring what back? Noone asked someone back. To make it more clear, in the history of wow we have RDF more years than not. So I don’t want something “back”. I want the convenience. You want the social blah blah back, although you enjoy it in your guild.
I was not making an argument here. Feel free ofc to use the same sentence but the truth is that your arguments (including the post I am quoting here for the last time) are not serious.
You defend what devs said. And that include of course the LFG.
Lol. You cherry picked as expected. I will never look back at manual group formation because it does not do anything better for the game AS IT IS NOW. Also there is no manual for more than 15 years. In both classic and tbcc people use the addon that parsed the spammy channel we are supposed to use. The only manual thing was writing /invite and the social interaction was “tank will get all unwanted”, “XXX is reserved” etc.
The actual social interaction begins when the instance begin. And that happens either manually or automatically.
You come here without knowing anything that it happens in beta, thinking with terms of wotlk 10-12 years ago. Which is a common mistake. This is the last time I answer though since I don’t see any value for me or the others to answer to such posts.
“As it is now”? By this you are referring to the playerbase, I assume. Classic is a solved game. Even now we have streamers and youtubers telling you exactly how you will play in Wrath regardless of what class/spec you choose. We know exactly what will await us at the final phase of the game. Classic isn’t just solved, it is mastered, and if Classic vanilla and TBCC are anything to go by then class balance will remain static throughout the entirety of the expansion’s life cycle. So with nothing left to solve people find ways to optimize the very soul out of the game. The Dungeon Finder won’t fix this.
Blizzard wants to “protect and nurture social experiences” in Classic and they have deduced that the nature of the Dungeon Finder compromises this. How will they nurture social experiences with the Random Dungeon Finder?
Let me walk you through a very plausible scenario.
Bob is a tank. He wants to find a group for Shattered Halls Heroic. He asks his guild, but those who are online are otherwise occupied so no one joins him. So he opens his friend list to see if someone else is online. He whispers Lisa, a damage dealer, who also wants to go to the Shattered Halls.
Now the group consists of Bob and Lisa, two friends from different guilds on the same server. Bob asks Lisa if she knows if anyone wants to join. Lisa reaches out to her guild and someone responds. Patrick has joined the group, another DPSer. Now Lisa and Patrick, like Bob, consult their friend lists to see if anyone is available. Patrick scores a healer, and Janet joins the group.
The group has now grown from a chain of friends. Bob has not previously played with either Patrick or Patrick’s friend Janet. Three different guilds are present in the group. But the flow of the group creation comes to a halt as everyone has exhausted their social networks, and so the group has to resort to looking for a random. Since the group is near complete finding a random is not so difficult. Do they pick up the first random that responds? Maybe they don’t. Let’s say Lisa is a fury warrior who is very interested in the epic weapon from the last boss, and the first random to respond is a combat rogue. Bob asks Lisa if this is okay, and Lisa expresses somewhat reluctantly that she’d prefer another class to join. Then a warlock responds, and Bob figures there’s no conflict of interest when it comes to loot by inviting the warlock, so they do that.
There are many layers of social play here. I find it difficult to believe that you cannot relate to having experienced something like this yourself, because this is how it often was for me. Except it wasn’t always so smooth – it could admittedly take time. But downtime is an opportunity to chat so it isn’t necessarily a bad thing. If you truly haven’t experienced this then you ought to expand your friend list. Try being more social in dungeons. Because remember, being polite while in a group with others will get you invited back!
Bob is a tank. He wants to find a group for Utgarde Pinnacle Heroic. He asks his guild, but those who are online are otherwise occupied so no one joins him. He opens the Dungeon Finder, clicks a button and gets a group.
TBC: Bob gets completely ignored because noone wants to play garbage SHH
WotLK: Bob gets to meet 4 new random people he would never meet other way, spends 20 minutes chatting with them and since they all need some more emblems, they continue queing for the rest of their lives
Do you actually, unironically believe what they wrote? Blizzard has been caught lying time and again and agian and again.
That entire post is a PR spiel, they don’t give a damn about nurturing anything. They aren’t adding RDF probably because they either can’t, or their projections tell them they will sell more 70 boosts and server transfers without it.
This entire thread is players shouting at players trying to convince other players reading it. Blizzard won’t even read or acknowledge it.
Now as for bob’s adventures, in vast majority of cases that I see on a daily basis in bulletin board, it goes like this:
Bob needs the figurine of colossus for his mitigation set, so he types: Geared tank LFM SHH HC, figurine reserved, unwanted reserved. No tank fee, have at least full T5.
His group instantly fills with members who just won a small lottery right then and will see an inside of SHH that week.
Or Nicolay the Mage needs pattern: enchant weapon - savagery from SHH. He asks in guild with 25 people online, but nobody responds. He doesn’t blame them, he wouldn’t be caught near SHH if not for the damnable pattern. He makes a macro LFM SHH HC, need all., about 5-8 dps and a healer or sometimes two whisper instantly and he does his best to take the first ones, but is sometimes tempted by those who add “T6” to their whisper. He then puts “LF1M SHH HC, need tank.” it into his keybind macro and proceeds to do his dailies while clicking it every 1 min. Eventually a pala whispers him that he will tank it for 150g fee. Nicolay asks in party chat if they are all willing to pay 37g each for a tank. One person, the healer, is not. Nicolay is glad, because he also hates to debase himself so, but if they all agreed, he would have paid. Another 40 min pass and dailies on the isle are done, Nicolay already does the Ogri’la ones when a pala whispers him that his gear is blue, but he’ll tank it if he can reserve figurine. Nicolay announces this in party and everyone cheers, except a ret dps who also wants the trinket. Nicolay cringes and prepares for more spam, but the ret leaves willingly, what a champ. Nicolay considers adding him, but what the hack he needs a t4 and blue ret from the joke levelling guild in his list for? Dps are literally free. The pala tank joins and another dps wins a lottery that day with answering “lf1m shh hc, need dps”.
And no, what you describe has never happened to me, my friend list is full of people from classic who never log anymore, and i’ve literally not added anyone to it in TBC. Who do I add? Useless dps? Tanks who ask for payments? Healers who literally don’t say a single word and roll need on dps gear?
For the sake of argument, let’s say this is in phase 1 or 2.
That’s not in line with reality. Not in 2009 and certainly not in 2022. There are many reasons to be for the Dungeon Finder, but the positive impact it had on the social qualities of the game is not one. It’s delusional.
Even if I question Blizzard’s capabilities they have zoned in on the major issues of WLK. One big difference between Vanilla+TBC and retail is that dungeons and heroic dungeons are trash content, and this development started in WLK and it has had a negative impact on the social aspect of the game. Many who are pro-RDF seem to acknowledge this as well as they’re trying to deflect blame from the Dungeon Finder tool itself. Somewhere on the road Blizzard made design decisions that have had an averse effect on the game’s social climate.
Nah, if Bob is so selfish about loot then he doesn’t want to take unnecessary risks with randoms and will go to his friends first. While he does not know Patrick or Janet they’re at least friends of a friend, so there’s some social guarantee that they aren’t bad people. Because Bob trusts Lisa, and Lisa wouldn’t befriend ninjas and trolls, right? It’s not a 100% guarantee but it’s better than bringing a complete stranger. He may very well be reserving the figure in his message in the LFG chat, but that’s his perogative. If you want that item then don’t join his group.
… also, you guys are playing on servers where people demand full T5 for heroic dungeons? That is sad. But I’ll repeat, for this scenario this is happening in phase 1 or 2. Heroic Dungeons are, in TBCC, outdated content by Phase 3 and only really relevant for people gearing up alts.
I think I see your problem if you didnt belive the ret about him needing the trinket that is just for tanking, then you would get groups way quicker xD. Now if you cast your mind back to phase 1-2 there wouldnt have been so hard for you to find a group because the content still dropped relevant items, and SHH in particular was a part of the T5 atunment. And Terres is clearly not talking about the last phases and nether is anyone who talks about the social interactions around dungeons, once the dungeons are completly over geared and the loot (other than badges) from there dont mean anything at all anymore ofc people will just want to do them efficiently without talking because “everyone” have already done them 10000 times.
At this point it reads like
“I’m in a useless guild therefore I need RDF”
Have you ever tried joining an actual guild?
You see the real “chad” dps never join guilds that function like they should they only go for guilds whos only goal is to be able to show of really good parces so they are able to jerk to how amazing they are at the game.
What u described for TBC is a complete utopia lol 
Yes, RDF removes the social aspect of having to write personally to XX players before u find someone who will join u on your quest/dung/whatever
BUT at the same time, RDF allows you to easily meet new people. There is no reason why Bob can’t start a convo about something while he, Lisa and whoever else travels to the dungeon’s entrance.
Then I live in a utopia. Cool.