Is Sylvanas really all that bad

Community General Discussion
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Aight boys, let’s discuss this. Does Sylvanas even need a redemption arc?

Let’s start with the 4th war. Sylvanas, who has constantly seen the undead and the horde exist at the mercy of the Alliance claimed to fear an azerite-fueled arms race, which the Alliance would win and use the weapons to finish off the Horde. During the BFA opening we see the azerite machines the Alliance has managed to create in such a short time, so her fear wasn’t unjustified.

The “alleged” genocide is really a far-fetched idea. Sylvanas at the time wasn’t going after numbers. She really knew in a full-on battle, the Alliance would win. This is why she relied on subversion, and make sure to draw the elven armies away from Darnassus and Teldrassil to ensure they could conquer the places. I’m not sure we can call it a genocide if first you make sure the majority of elves aren’t there. Sure, many died, but eh… it’s war.

Due to a war being inevitable, with both factions working on massive azerite weaponry, Sylvanas is being at best accelerationist, and at worst someone who deliberately breaks a broken system to expose how broken it is.

But what if it is a genocide. Now, at this stage Sylvanas fully knows what happens and she knows the entire structure of life and death. Sylvanas is also an accelerationist. She knows when people die, they aren’t ever dead. They just go to the infinite life, which is Death. Life is but a flicker, an irrelevant string of non-choices that you don’t get to have, before you’re sent to be an eternal servant in death. And you can’t even choose who you serve.

For Sylvanas it really doesn’t matter because a) nobody has any choice ever. This will be used for the Arthas redemption arc, mark my words. We will be told he isn’t responsible because The Helm of Domination controlled him. But how’s that different from Fate controlling us? Did Arthas even have the choice to not put the Helm on? Or was he always fated to do so?

We are but pawns in a greater game. We are small worker bees used for our energy by grand beings who have no interest in us as beings, but as tools. As fuel. And we consider them good? Why? How can someone who erases choice from your entire existence be good? How can someone who determines your fate before your birth be good?

Sylvanas is rather villainous, but all she did is… burn down a corrupted tree, accelerated an inevitable war and accelerated inevitable deaths. Think of everyone we have killed in pursuit of “good”. We broke the machine of death in this pursuit, and opened the floodgates to everything that’s happened. We, the player character, aren’t one to judge Sylvanas. Her sins can’t compare to ours. And all she wants is to give us the freedom to not live out these rotten fates.

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Sylvanas is going straight to the bottom of the pit, no exceptions simply. Her crimes of “morally grey” are a joke either portrayed by bad writing or just intentionally meant to be seen as “bad” and well, its pretty obvious by this point. Alot of people are going to be very angry if shes not axed off.

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We’ll just completely overlook the fact sylv and jailor are torturing countless souls, which she murdered in cold blood. Of which many were inocent civilians, children and the elderly. And using them for power, literally draining there souls in torment and agony till they’re dead dead. Shes evil, there’s no morally grey lol. Go do the ardenweald campaign, freeing the dead nightelf souls from torg, then try and say she’s not a baddy.

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Yes
/thread

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Nope, Sylvanas did nothing wrong.

This is WARcraft, i know alliance calls peace/crimes when they get wrecked but still its WARcraft. :yum:

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Nope. She ever was a schemer, and the main ‘redemption’ she requires is the independence she had as Banshee Queen. Seeing her in service to Mr. “Nothing Escapes the Maw” is a bit of a downgrade tbh.

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Can we please stop defending the lore reasons behind massacring 3 cities and being a happy go lucky necromancer?

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There is a difference between War & Genocide.
She is a Genocidal maniac & deserves to be put down.

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Errr… very dodgy hill to chose to die on.

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Sylvanas could be the real strong leader what the Horde need,in his life and afterlife.
Afterlife is infinit so the life (few years) is totaly meaningless.
Sylvanas could change the world save the planet from dwarf digging gnome machinery,ork treecutting and stuff…
We go to afterlife and live our tru eternal life.
But something happen and she make a deal with a Jailer. Before that she was totaly good leader,a tricky leader who can bring victory to the horde,like in teldrasil,if you engaging us with UNhonorable machines an sht,I will take your holy tree unhonoably.
Thats the spirit what we need.
But jailer happend in her mind so fkd up the whole story.

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It’s just the player sitting on a high horse, drunk with all the “glory” from slaying all these enemies, allegedly evil, most of the time without questioning much along the way.

All throughout our journey we have served higher figures that had us do morally questionable assassinations, sometimes on a population scale.

This is a clear example of tunnel vision, where Blizzard dictates what should we focus in a game instead of what’s really rotten and important.

It doesn’t matter, in the end they will understand. Sylvanas will save us all!

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In a war that she started, not the Alliance. The Alliance only went to Lordaeron because of Teldrassil.

Same thing.

Same thing, it was “inevitable” because she started it.

And that’s about it, everything you say is irrelevant because every issue after Legion happened because of her and her selfish and delusional wish of changing the afterlife for everyone due to her not wanting to go to the Maw.

She doesn’t need and doesn’t deserve a redemption arc just because now she had a 5 seconds long regret scene after mass murdering people for her own convenience.

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Let’s not forget Stormheim.

It’s clear that Genn had the intention to start the war either way.

When you’re in the middle of a literal world ending conflict and you’re still focused on your petty hate, proceed to use Alliance assets to attack the Horde, it means that during peace nothing will prevent you from doing so.

Not to mention that no disciplinary act has been taken against him, which proves that the Alliance is not all that innocent really.

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Let’s not
Yes. Yes she is
Worse than anything that plagued Azeroth or any world in the Great Dark Beyond
No whitewshing would change this
/thread

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Yeah not like he had his homeland invaded or his son killed and his people driven off to be refugees, only for those who remained in Darnassus to burned to a crisp

. Funny how I never see Sylvanas apologists so eager to blame Genn for everything mention that little detail.

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Let’s be brutally honest here.

The only reason Sylvanas is kept around is because Blizzard have systematically destroyed the Horde just so they could elevate this pathetic wretch to some form of leadership. Then they decided “OK let’s spice her up, she’s a complete failure and destroys everything she touches, lets kill her once… no… TWICE!! Then have her being made warchief!”

!Brilliant! that will sell craploads of copies and keep the fanboys happy! You just earned a raise!"

The irony of that is… Warchief… She has all the tactical ability of a 5 year old who from the word go pretty much ignored the Horde and set off on HER own personal goal of making herself immortal, making deals here and there with pretty much every raid boss there was, only to have her dreams of Godhood crumble in her face. Stormheim being a perfect example. Like Genn correctly says, “You took my future. I took yours.”

Her attempt at defending Undercity.
failed miserably. Want to know why people use scorched earth tactics? Its to deny the enemy, (and unironically, your allies) the territory you once held. By Blighting and rendering Undercity unavailable as a base of operations, all she did was cut Silvermoon off from a close stronghold. Still

Tactical genius

Then at Orgrimmar she basically laughs in the Horde’s face (AND the Forsaken), somehow manages to become so powerful she made the Doom Slayer look like a 10 year old with a BB gun, and now we are somehow being asked to believe she is somehow being manipulated by the Jailer and had enough of it, so is trying to worm her way back into people’s good side again, hoping everyone will pat her little head and say “there there we know we know… you didn’t really mean it…”

No. Enough is enough.

Blizzard. For God’s sake make the Horde INTERESTING again.

you can start by finally killing off this pathetic excuse for a character. She lost her appeal long ago. The Horde are not exactly lacking in female characters. Maybe try focusing on them, rather than constantly relying on Sillyvanas.

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I never said he didn’t have the right to be upset.

But it doesn’t change the fact that he committed aggression against the Forsaken in the middle of the Burning Legion invasion, which, I must say, was a lot more important than his personal beef with Sylvanas.

I’m not going to argue about the Gilneas situation here because that was not the point I was trying to make. The point is he damaged both Alliance and Horde assets when they most needed it. That’s reckless, stupid and a red flag.

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This is a joke, right? I refuse to believe that anyone would actually make an actual argument defending Sylvanas’ actions.

She literally burned Teldrassil, plagued Gilneas and Southshore, killing God knows how many and that’s just the tip of the iceberg. Just what exactly is supposed to be alleged about it? You can literally see smoldering ashes of a world tree.

There is no “what if” here. She did that. She committed genocide. There is no argument of any way, shape or form that could challenge this fact.

I don’t care one bit about her motivation. There is no justification for any of her actions no matter how grand her crusade might yet become. If Blizzard willingly decides to ignore this fact, I’m officially done with WoW. If Blizzard writers are so incompetent that they can’t follow through with actions of a monstrous character they made so they have to downplay what she did, I have no reason to be here in the first place.

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not even gonna bother reading this waste of time and flagged it as trolling right away.

Peace :slight_smile:

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Beats the hell out of having the Alliance so close to Silvermoon, if you ask me. It was the right call.

I see no clues yet that she is being manipulated by the Jailor. In her discussions with Anduin, he asks her this: “What makes you think you’re not a weapon to achieve his ends?” and her answer is no words at all. Someone else would’ve been taken by surprise by such a question and obviously try to negate it but she didn’t. She knows she’s also a tool, she clearly thought about it.

That makes me believe that she is using him until she’s ready to strike.

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