Is the Horde unredeemable at this point?


#1

With the burning of Teldrassil, and the resultant genocide of the Night Elves, the horde has commited an atrocity that can only be compared to the invasion of Quel’thalas by the Scourge, or the genocide of the Draenei by the Orcs.

Is there anything they can do to redeem themselves at this point?


Chaotic lore where to place it ?
#2

Nope, of course the Horde can’t redeem itself anymore. More reason for the factions to end next expansion.


#3

They could lift an axe and shout the magic words.

Seriously, tho? Nah. Not in this generation anyway. Their children might wash the blemish from the name eventually, but… that’s kinda the story Thrall wanted to tell with his Horde and it didn’t work.


#4

This is bait. Don’t feed the bait.


#5

I promise you it’s not. I want to know how they can redeem themselves at this point, because I don’t want the horde to be monsters.


#6

No. This political organization should just be dissolved. But to be fair… it should never have existed the way it does in the first place. Thrall taking over the Horde name and the worship of old Horde heroes did bind it to a legacy of mindless slaughter from the very start. And whoever came up with the idea of being honorbound to blind obedience before the Warchief kind of caused the Garrosh-situation as well as the Sylvanas-situation in the first place.

At the very least they need a full rebranding. They should clearly distance themselves from the legacy of Gul’dan, Garrosh and Sylvanas this time, if they want to convincingly claim to have changed. “The Horde” just doesn’t stand for Thrall, it stands for genocidal warlords.

Even better would be if the Horde was dissolved and the component races were taken up by the Zandalari empire. That would at least be a clearly different legacy they would take up.

And best case… just dissolve it without any organization taking its place. Maybe the Alliance can follow suit then.

Take it from the expert!


#7

Who even cares at this point. They redeemed Grommash and somehow ended up turning Yrel into the villain. Just switch off your brain and enjoy the stunning cinematics.


#8

Short answer no, impossible.

Long answer: yes, according to Activision Blizzard.

  1. They wanted to add a shock value to BfA.
    So they came up with the burning of Teldrassil.
  2. Not only that both player characters have to happily slaughter the opposing faction in one moment just to work for the same goal in the other and this happens while the NPC’S reminds us that we hate each other. (Saurfang talking to Shaw)
    I wonder sometimes, how low IQ Activision Blizzard thinks their player base are.
  3. All of this with a plot that has more holes than a Swiss cheese, any doubts look at Nazjatar plot, I think Haiete has already covered that topic very well.
    One example: how Talanji and Zul went to the Stockades ?
  4. They probably wanted to leave as always everything open for a future faction war, because in the next expansion we are going to fight N’Zoth.
    Problem is: players are tired of it.
    The conclusion of the faction conflict, should be in BfA.

What they haven’t realised:

  1. Players already experience this in MoP it’s done unoriginal and because they overdid it this time people will not accept it.

That’s my opinion.
Cheers.


#9

Wimby got it right. It wasn’t redeemable in the first place. But that’s one of the charms of it. The struggle to change, and the realization that it wasn’t going to be accepted.

Not fully anyway.

What’s annoying is the blatant disregard of why it was like this from the start. That and the odd skipping of… nearly anything integral. Horde PC being a dumb yes-man anyone?


(Blunderhoof) #10

Oh…but I’m thinking everything baaaaad will just be pinned on Sylvanas and Sylvanas alone(we’re basicly already there) and everyone else remains scottfree.
Just like in the original SoO :slight_smile:


(Ivydoom) #11

It depends on you point of view.
As an earthling, no the Horde has committed atrocities that go against the convention of Geneva. But in Azeroth no such convention exists.
As forsaken, I don’t care and also can the humans be redeemed for shunning us?
As any other Horde race: probably not but we need each other to survive on this world and we don’t want to be friends with alliance (except tauren, I can see them supporting the disbanding of the horde and ally with the alliance insofar that they can keep to themselves but are not enemies)

Also I agree the story will probably wind up with everybody pointing the finger at Sylvanas and once she’s gone from the Horde, they will be best friends with the alliance again until the next war.


#12

You think shunning someone because they are undead, right after the scourge’s invasion of Lordaeron, is as bad as killing most of the Night Elven race?


#13

That’s pretty much what I am expecting as well, yeah.

Unless they are planning to redeem her, which is a possible alternative (that I despise).


#14

The poor little forsaken who were shunned after they, like, wiped out the remnants of the Alliance of Lordaeron. What cruel world they live in!


#15

Yes but it would beyond blizzard skill.

Here is a senario i came up with that would grant them a chance at redemtion:

Act 1: Humilation:
Sylvanas compleetly crushes the horde rebels with superior tatic’s.
No blight, no nukes, just sheer badass generalship.
The horde rebel and there leaders have to flee.
They get sheltered in stormwind by andiun.
Protected by the gaurd.
While they are walking to the palace under heavy escort the people trow rotten fruit at them.
Thrall says: We deserve this.
And the entire horde looks ashamed.
Cut camera to an angry human woman planing to trow a rotten banana at baine.
Baine just looks away in shame.
The woman slowly lowers the banana with a look of pity on her face.
Meanwhile the rest just keep trowing rotten fruit.

Act 2: Reconciliation:
Over the course of two patch’s with several month between them we see the horde leaders and random npc act like normal people.
We have loth’mar playing chess with an old man, thrall is helping repair a damaged rooftop, baine is making orphans laugh, etc.
People will be slowly over time begin to see that they horde and alliance arent that different.

This is vital.
Right now all the common folk known about the horde is that they are bloodthirsty monsters.
Having them act as people, friends and family infront of other people will make them look more like them and less like unredeemable monsters.

Without this (for a lack of a beter word) humanization of the horde they will always be seen as monsters.

Blizzard must invoke pity on the good members of the horde.

While this is happening(and keep in mind this is just stuff you see, you dont get any quests)
The player’s and army of both alliance and horde(execpt sylvanas loyalist) are slowly pushing back sylvanas.

Sylvanas loyalist see the war from the losing side.

Act 3: Sacrifice:
One of sylvanas assasin is trying to murder Shandris Feathermoon while visiting stormwind for a briefing on how the war goes.
Attacking her in public in an attempt to sow fear among the population.
Saurfang or thrall trows himself between the assasin and save Shandris Feathermoon life.
They die shortly after we killed the assasin in full view of the entire city.

Act 4: Redemption:
Sylvanas and Nathanos are either captured or killed.
The horde is shattered and leaderless.
Jaina has died fighting on the frontlines.
Queen Talanji claims rulership over the horde and offers the rebels a second chance to join them against the hated alliance.
The rebel leaders give a grand speech on how they constantly fight the alliance and all it did was cause suffering to both side’s and that this cycle of hatred has to end.
This speech is so moving(and i cant writte speeches so someone else has too) that queen Talanji agree’s to let bygones be bybones.
Both she and andiun agree to allow there people to mingle but remain independed.
Too much bad blood that needs time to heal.

Now the slow road to healing has begun.
Time for the next expension.

They key to redemption lies in showing us (not telling us but showing us) that not all horde members are bloodthirsty murderers but people.
And that the horde accepts that the constant war is just pointless destruction.
By having the race’s mingle(aka cross faction gameplay) the alliance and horde leadership encourge’s people to let go of there hate and work togather.
This also justify’s all future pvp as people who just cant let go of there haterd.

Tyranda is going to need elune to stop her from murdering the horde as:
ONLY THE GODDESS CAN FORBID ME ANYTHING!!!

Nothing short of elune telling her to stop will be believeable.

If all goes according to plan.
The horde that remains has learned that pointless war is stupid, those who want war are either dead or the minority, and the alliance has been shown to accauly can win a war without needing the horde infighting to do it.

The thing that is needed for the horde to be redeemed is that people on both factions can see that there are those in the horde who feel ashamed of what there faction has done.

For without that shame, that regret.
They will always just be monsters.


#16

Yeah, by saying that it was all Sylvanas and move on.


#17

Either BfA will end with both factions still at war, or with the most stupid ending possible so we’re all friends again.
This time feels like MoP, but everyone in the Horde and not just orcs are supporting Garrosh (who used the old god’s heart in the prepatch) and everyone is cool with Vol’jin being stabbed.
But when they find out that Garrosh wants to use the divine bell suddenly some Horde leaders get cold feet. The fact that Garrosh wanted to use flesh creating mogu magic to create an army before obviously didn’t concern anyone.


(Ivydoom) #18

I don’t think so.

My forsaken does. I tried to make that point.


(Aeula) #19

Nope, not after this new rebellion. The Horde is too unstable to continue and the races should seek independence.


#20

So you want the biggest guilt trip ever, that would even pale Thralls attempt of starving all Orcs down in Durotar. Know what. Just kill off the Horde for good. Still a better fate than your scenario.