Is the updated Frost DK crap?

Am I the only one who finds the gameplay for the new Frost DK simply disgusting in terms of convenience? Yesterday I was still thinking that I just couldn’t get used to the new rotation, but today I finally realized that it’s just terribly inconvenient and turned a fairly simple and understandable class into another piano.

I’ll say right away that Breath of Sindragosa goes to hell. I haven’t played it since Legion and I think it’s the most bastardly designed talent of all that I’ve ever seen in video games. But if you don’t take it, the class was quite comfortable to play. Until this patch.

At first, when I was just learning the new talents, it even seemed to me that they did it better. Remorseless Winter was allowed to be combined with Pillar of Frost, and Empowered Rune Weapon was made into something more useful than just a +1 mandatory button on burst. But then I tried playing this…

And it’s disgusting. The main problem is that Frost DK used to have one universal rotation for all occasions: Obliteration, Frost Strike, Remorseless Winter on CD and Howling Blast on proc. All of this conveniently took up 4 main buttons to press them without the need for additional mouse interaction or auxiliary binds. Now we have 2 different rotations for solo targeting and AoE, where interchangeable abilities appear, namely: instead of Obliteration, you need to press Frostscythe, and instead of Frost Strike, you need to press Glacial Advance, which they suddenly decided to bring back for some reason. So instead of one universal rotation, there are now 2 alternative rotations. I think it is not worth explaining that in an active fight, these rotations will have to be frequently alternated depending on the situation, etc.

And now two rotations can no longer be conveniently placed on the panel without additional manipulations with binds. But the problem is that all the convenient binds for pressing are already occupied by many other abilities that I often have to use: Death Grip, Kick cast, 2 sprints, save abilities, etc.

And the question arises: why the hell? For what? To make life difficult for the player? Why was it necessary to break something that worked well? Did someone ask them to do all this? Do they understand that it is simply inconvenient to play this? Although, what am I even talking about?.. I have long understood that the DK design team are people who do not understand this class at all. Sometimes they do something really interesting, like with Abomination Limb, but then they just delete it and again and again shove their stillborn Breath of Sindragosa to everyone, which only pisses everyone off. But it’s not enough for them - now they’ve simply decided to screw up the standard rotation, turning a fairly convenient gameplay into another piano with switching layouts or extra difficulty modifiers in the form of complex binds.

As a result, playing THIS with your hands has simply become uncomfortable. At first, I thought they did it on purpose to discourage players from playing with their hands and switching to a one-button assistant. But then I realized that they themselves most likely didn’t even test all this with their hands, but simply ran it through their new “brainchild”. In general - the impressions from the changes so far are simply terrible. So much so that I even decided to write all this down. The more I play - the stronger the desire to temporarily switch to Blood DK becomes. Even for simply completing quests and WQ.

P.S. Or am I in the minority - and many people really like these changes?

Personally i like the new changes. You now have to be ready to change on the fly with your rotation , from St to aoe and vice versa. This does induces a somewhat strategic aproach to m+ since you cant just smash obliterate and be ok, the fights are more dynamic.
Now that AOE profile has been separated from ST profile hopefully they can easier tune our abilities without influencing both profiles.

I like ERW , its a VERY good QOL button to have , a shorter CD on its would make it even sweeter.
I dislike Howling blast , we waste 3? points to make it feel better to press? Thats just awfull , i think they should look into howling blast a bit more.

Also as a FDK we lack any meaningfull execute, also something to look at.

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The best solution I’ve found so far is to make two skill panels that partially duplicate each other, with ST abilities on one and AOE abilities on the other. I had to bind the switching between panels so that I could change them during combat without having to point and click the mouse. Overall, it’s playable. But it’s still a very inconvenient gameplay hack that I personally didn’t ask for. It’s like if I could walk normally in shoes, but they gave me two-meter stilts instead and said, “Well, you have more options with these.” Well, that’s cool, maybe you have more options, but they’re extremely inconvenient to use. Especially compared to shoes.

Overall, binds and macros are hacks. They’re designed to make normal gameplay simpler and more convenient. Not to make inconvenient gameplay at least somewhat playable.

Yes, only you, for most ppl new changes are a big W, you can see it by the amount of frost dks overall in world and in lfg, no more dnd, breath became more easily to use, ERW is massive up because now you can always get additional resources for your pillar windows which helps you with resource management, and overall if to talk about feelcraft it become more simple and smooth to play.

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Let’s start with the fact that almost all my friends who have played Frost DK at least once and tried Breath of Sindragosa agree that this is, at a minimum, a bad talent, and at most, the most disgusting thing they’ve ever seen. And I completely agree with them. All the forums and discussion threads I’ve come across boiled down to the fact that this talent should be removed from the game.

So when I hear that most ppl likes BoS, I automatically don’t believe it. This is bull$hit. Otherwise, it wasn’t about BoS. I also praised ERW as a rare good change. The point is that the rotation has now become much more inconvenient, since all the abilities don’t fit on the panel in convenient proximity to the WASD movement keys. All modifications to the interface should be thrown out right away, in my opinion, since I don’t use them - I play on the standard interface, as it was intended by the developers by default. And on this standard interface, playing with the current rotation is extremely inconvenient. You either need to make two extra binds, which you still need to find a place to insert. Or two different ability panels + 2 binds to switch panels in one direction and the other. That is, in any case, it will be very problematic to play without two extra binds.

The point is that the game should be convenient and comfortable by default, otherwise it is a bad game. Now it is a bad game, which is uncomfortable and inconvenient to play without hacks in the form of binds. And this is an extra headache and extra hemorrhoids, which the developers came up with out of the blue. They already added both the scythe and the ice attack to the game, and then removed them due to playability issues. And now again on the same rake.

P.S. I remembered the word that flew out of my head when I was describing all this - ergonomics. My complaint is about the problems of the ergonomics of the new rotation. It is completely ill-conceived at the level of core game design. Efficiency and numbers - this is not about that at all. In this case, I do not care about all this. We are talking about the broken ergonomics of the new rotation.

This is the worst take I have seen in a long time. The dk frost changes are great. DND is gone which is the best part about it, and remorseless is no longer on the GCD which is an even bigger win for the spec. Breath also became easier to use.

The fact that you don’t have 2 extra keybinds (especially as you now dont have a bind for remorseless, dnd and abomb limb) on one of the least cluttered specs in the game sounds concerning.

I can continue the fact, that nearly all people from class discord called this changes great and there are lots of ppl, who preferred to play old BoS, even if SB was more effective, (you can open raider io and check top 10-20 player, there were like 7 or more ppl running with BoS)
Now the play style became way better than it was before, and it seems that blizz did some good job with spec if compare it with how dragonflight frost was bad.

The place of Remorseless Winter was taken by the updated ERW, since it now needs to be pressed constantly and quite often. Previously, I had it without a bind at all - I pressed it with the mouse. I never used DND at all, since it was another idiotic decision by the developers to tie it to the rotation. I simply ignored this ability on Frost DK. Abomb limb, similarly to ERW, I had no bind, since it only needed to be pressed once every minute and a half - and this could be done with the mouse.

As a result, I simply have no empty slots for using two new AoE abilities that imply non-stop rotation, and not a simple click once a minute.
1 - Howling Blast.
2 - ERW (this button is inconvenient to spam non-stop, it is only for abilities with a medium cooldown)
3 - Frost Strike
4 - Obliteration
5 - Death Strike
6 - Ice Chains (but this is almost a “dead zone”, it is already problematic to reach with my fingers, fortunately I do not have to do this often)

Binds:
Q - Death Grip
E - cast kick
R - Death’s Walk
T - BR (almost a “dead zone” for pressing)
F - AMS

That’s it. All the other buttons are in the “dead zone” of quick pressing, if I also need to move during the battle. I press all the other abilities exclusively with the mouse. And where can I stick 2 more AoE abilities here, so that they can be conveniently spammed during an active fight, maintaining the ability to move the character?

At the moment, the only solution I could find is to create a duplicate of the main ability bar with Frost Strike replaced with Glacial Advance and Obliteration with Frostscythe. And also bound quick switching of ability bars to Shift+1 and Shift+3 in one and the other direction respectively. And all this is a nightmare how inconvenient when during one fight you need to switch from one type of rotation to another several times. It’s just an extra headache, invented out of thin air. Just to complicate the player’s life.

I think the rework is fairly good. New BoS interact nicely with our kit and KS is great for proc management. The new ERW make the natural crit less important and makes 2H very strong. Personally i am playing DW FB + BoS and find it very strong both AOE and ST with the rider hero talents. I do like the idea of using Frostscythe instead of Obliterate in AOE, but pressing Glacial Advance feels bad. This is why i am playing this FB build so i won’t have to press it because Arctic Assault mostly cover it and gives us FB almost every KM proc we consuming in AOE. Though i think that they could improve it a list bit by making ERW giving us FB if Talented. That would be perfect.
I really dont know why people are yearning all of sudden to the dumb D&D Obliterate cleave…

Ok, seems like it’s my guilt that I answered something in this topic, bye

Its really good they finally made the spec have a difference so that i can do more damage than another frost DK if i play better.
Instead of every frost DK doing 100% the same damage because.

For some reasons blizzard (probably to torture their death knight players) have changed it around so unholy is the simple spec and frost is not now.

You can just play unholy, 3 button rotation, no skill, no procs, nothing to keep track of. Just press ur 3 (mostly 2) buttons at random times.

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I don’t like Unholy DK. It’s not my style of gameplay. If I play Blood DK often and a lot, since some content is much easier to close only with it, then I don’t play Unholy DK at all. There was only 1 time when I chose this specialization - to complete the Tower of Mages in Legion. It was the first and last time.

Therefore, what Unholy DK has - I don’t care at all. I’m only interested in Frost DK. And at the moment, after 3 days, it hasn’t become more convenient to play. Moreover - I have practically abandoned AoE rotation in general - and I almost never change the ability panels even when attacking large packs of enemies. It is much easier and more convenient to kill them through procs from ST skills than to constantly switch the rotation back and forth.

P.S. And I’m not even talking about the simply disgusting animations of the AoE abilities. They are so nondescript that they don’t give any impact at all from their use. When my Scythe from Reaper works - that looks like a spectacular AoE. But when I use Frostscythe - it looks just nothing. I don’t always even understand whether there was an attack if I don’t look down at the ability panel.

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Low LOW effort on animations… hell is my money going bruv.

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Dont you know?!
They went straight to the paladin class development. They needed the money for a new color on wings proc.

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My only beef with Frost DK is that it has GREAT dmg for a few sec, and then the sustained dmg is near non existent outside your burst window. :sweat_smile:

And for some reason I just hate how AoE and ST require you switching between 2 AoE and 2 ST spells… It makes it feel a bit bloated… But that might be more of a personal preference thing.

Frost is for sure more bursty this patch. Except for FB builds, which are more sustain, all other builds are focusing on doing high damage during Pillar and especially BoS windows.