Objection - Undercity was destroyed by Sylvanas.
One boys word dont make no ting canon.
Same goes to Elves? Up until Arthas knocked on their door. What is your point?
Uther openly defied his own prince at Strathholme and convinced Terenas to bring him home and Jaina is just Jaina.
90% of the populous was wiped - even if each slave took up a shovel it would make an army.
I didn’t really want to bother with this thread because, well it’s plain awfull and nothing I haven’t read here before.
I just wanted to point one little thing out, Medivh went straight to Lordearon city with his warnings because Terenas was still heading the remaining Alliance nations, and as such their ambassadors were present when he gave his warnings.
Perhaps he assumed, perhaps naively, that if Terenas or the ambassadors had listened to his words, they would have spread word to warn the other nations.
Then again, I find these what if’s, although sometimes interresting, largely fruitless - Arthas was ment to claim Frostmourne, Uther and Jaina were ment to turn their backs on him just before he attacked Stratholme, and Terenas and the ambassadors were ment to turn their backs on Medivh’s warnings - That’s just how the story goes.
It doesn’t really change by going - Yeah, but Uther should have done this, and Medivh should have flown over there, don’t get me wrong, it’s nice to speculate, but it’s means nothing.
Coincidently, I also happen to think that Anduin naming Arthas as one of their own was just to give ‘some bad character’ to the Alliance- That was literally the first thought that I had when I watched him voice it in that cinematic - That’s just how awfull I find the writing these last years, and how deep Blizzard felt the need to shove the Horde into the dirt, so the precious Alliance could be practically fault free(on it’s surface anyway).
Yes, as individuals but not a collective army that rejoins under racial banner.
Good point. But if true, it actually makes the position of Stormwind and Ironforge even worse…because they actually heard the message of Medivh, and they didn’t listen and helped when it was too late anyway.
For Belf DHs it can definitely happen that the ones who want to return in Quel’thalas are accepted, Blood Elves would have no problem I think. Now Night Elves might have more problems, but probably now that Teldrassil burned they are willing to accept DHs to help against the Horde too.
Yes but High Elves already were out of the Alliance at that point. Also as I said they had more numbers but overall they were weaker, how can an army of rangers or magi do anything relevant against an enemy that can resurrect you…Blood Elves have an army of Paladins and Golems (and Golems can’t be raised in undeath) now. Or they can use the Light of the Sunwell directly. Or they can throw a Mana Bomb on the head of Arthas and he would die since the Mana Bomb reduces everything to ashes. And they have allies now, so things would be different, a Scourge invasion without the Lich King is not very terrible anymore like you will see right before Shadowlands. So the blame of the Elves toward the Scourge is still inferior than the ones of Stormwind and Ironforge (and Kul Tiras) that actually were Alliance members and did almost nothing.
Wrong.
They had less niche professions or equipement that much is true, but that doesnt give us solid comparison to say so.
Also this
Golems have been thing for LONG time. Its anima golems that they got in ToT.
All those fancy tools you named there - yet none of them really answer the question why did not Elves not react when Lordaeron fell?
And how are southern Kingdoms only ones “responsible” for Arthas rampage.
They had allies then as well.
You are doing unjustice to first invasion of Scourge comparing it to Shadowlands prepatch.
So was Quel’thalas, and no those things do no diminish “blame” of Elves. If there is a blame to start with.
Seriously do i have to underline you that alliance marched along arthas before he gets crazy? How about his pet dwarf?
Just because he betrayed them, that does not leave them out of this.
Like the forum snowflakes blame Horde for sylvanas because horde assisted her?
Exactly the same thing.
100% alliance player with cheap excuses for the dog faction. You cant hide it, no matter what.
Exacatly, the one you fail to see because of your alliance bias.
So because the alliance helped bringing down arthas they are cool…
I mean, what are you on to? Your stuff is strong 
He started alone?
Think deeper “lore” expert.
If he did not have ANYTHING from the alliance would he become the LK?
That is what you fail to see inside your alliance bias.
You are the worst of alliance apologists ive seen in the forums so far, really by far the worst and the achievs you can hide though some settings.
This is exactly what you do, as said… Dog faction bias.
Imagine a “pure horde” player in a “dismantle the horde” thread attacking the horde player and not being alliance while you… Dont care about the tree.
Your story is as weak as your biased arguments.
You still lack lore knowledge, scourge is not forsaken.
Scourge who escaped arthas and his monstrocities are the forsaken, the ones you blamed for sunwell in your alliance bias weak arguments.
According to the BFA cinematic, UC was sieged and destroyed by alliance and Jainas pink unicorn spaceship.
UC was seiged and a SINGLE wall was destroyed by Jaina and buried in blight by Sylvanas Windrunner. For the sake of arguement let’s be fair.
What Alliance? His expedition you mean? While he dismissed Paladins in Stratholme and other time denied Alliance’s call to go back home.
Muradins dwarves were there for artefact hunt.
…
How is starting a territorial war and fighting a world consuming threat the same thing?
Are we talking about the most beloved Prince of the biggest Human Kingdom?
This is some next level stuff - shame none of you are Elves it would fit right in Horde theme.
Just see the video again with the alliance siege machines and the pink unicorn spaceship.
Just because Sylvanas blighted it, that doesnt mean she destroyed it FOR US, she just blighted areas to stop you. So stop apologizing for the UC destruction, your faction did this and blight does not destroy walls for the sake of laughable cheap arguments 
Yes, those where the allies that helped him. If they didnt, he would not become who he has and you would not be guilty for him.
Did you complain about the OP that wants to dismantle horde because he/she is a snowflake? I dont think so, yet you choose to reply me defending your faction like the arthas expedition was not alliance forces or like the blight destroyed the walls of UC ?
Cmon… Better arguments… Thats so cheap and hillarious
You should be careful who you love next time then and also dont whine while your beloved ones destroyed alot more than just an RP tree.
Shame youre not a nelf druud, you would match the forum whiners all BFA long that cry about their RP tree while it was OK when you destroyed UC, Dazar alor, stole gold and precious items and killed the king.
While ofc your dalaran butcher and LK gf escaped…
You’re completely hopeless man. But you’re the one who is making fool of yourself. Your accusations are laughable, You completely twist my sentences, make false claims and additionally you’re incredibly rude and antagonistic toward me for no reason. Throwing ad hominem instead of elaborating on your argument. This is what people do when they’re have absolutely nothing to provide and have zero backup.
This is not how discussion are meant to go on forums. Go be sheep somewhere else, I’m sure you’ll find some fitting echo chamber.
I was having the impression these forums basically are the horde players echo chamber …
This guy is actually not very special but the generic horde player I came across.
Weired.
Same goes to you? Those cinematics do clearly show how walls crumbled down on the entrance of the city. Uninhabitable for anyone, like a rabid dog who cant eat and doesnt allow others to eat.
Also, Alliance had no intention to destroy the city or purge its citizens - their goal was Sylvanas which is clearly stated in cinematic.
It pretty much does, where no living or undead can live there anymore.
Maybe you want to rewatch your stuff mate.
Allies who followed his prince on a noble goal of destroying the reason that plagued their homeland? That’s pretty noble cause. Arthas turned those men into Death Knights afterwards.
Ok dawg. . .
No, because I dont agree on the approach.
Just because I do see flaws in your statements.
They were… But you are missing the point of why and what and blending two really opposite side of coins togather.
Well sure he did. Aint no one is saying no to that. But to say his crimes are Alliance crimes is absurd.
Welp its not a good event, not the tree but the way it was executed. But what happened is over. Get over it.
Debatable - it was a answer to a aggression and secondly Alliance bearly breached the outer walls with their seige engines, rest is on your Dawk Lady.
Never detroyed. Killed a King in open war state - bad move by Alliance there and taken Naval advantage.
This is a pure gold when coming from Horde Orc player.
Take her - no one likes her except Daelinna I think.
On the other hand … If she stays around thats a salt on a open wound for the Loyalists. A bitter choice indeed.
What did I tell you before? That there is no collective hivemind among Horde players. Maybe you should start to treat posters individually instead of writing plenty of accusations based on color in the background?
Because in this case - what is the difference between you and Rondakungfu?
Nope. Been there done that.
Your “background color” has lost every credibility to me.
Show me that you are not that hivemind I saw all the time maybe my stance will eventually change but for now. Nope.
What an awfully dramatic post.
Zakkaru has been showing that for years, he often fights other horde players, especially blood elves, when it comes to Zul’Jin/Amani.
Hell I’ve been posting here for over 2 years and I don’t think Alliance nor Horde players have any sort of hugbox here. Just because two people disagree with you doesn’t mean there’s a hidden conspiracy or something.
Eh I give up. That poster lost any credibility to me.
Treating person individually should be virture of any serious poster regardless of any circumstances. If she (or he) wants to be like Don Quixote and fight windmills, then she is free to do that. But I’m out.
Becuase that sentence reminded me of SJWs who are harrasing others until they will say sentence they order them to say like “BLM” to prove that they’re not racist, or some other crazy stuff. That is completely backwards.
So now that your fragile EGO got hurt by reality you are blind to see such as: Alliance is responsible for arthas, you reside to cheap side-offence to hurt me?
I think you only protrude how much your fragile EGO got hurt, like that nelf druud over here who answers YOU instead of me.
You on the other hand are the typical forum nelf druid snowflake: Alliance is innocent, sylvanas BAD.
It always amazes me how cheap excuses you can find to support your pathetic faction crimes 
Still, blight does not destroy walls. Sylvanas blighted courtyard to push dog faction out after they DESTROYED walls and she made it.
To that, youre absolutely 100% genuinely wrong like all your excuses for alliance but that i wont bother to debate becuase i know snowflakes like you, that druid + that shaman who pretends to be horde will always find the sillyest of excuses so its a never-ending circle of silliness.
You seem to need to re-watch because youre clueless and beyond funny at this point.
That does not make them innocent, they did help him out.
They thought their pathetic prince will help them to erradicate horde, instead he eradicated both horde and alliance. It was a boomerang in your alliance face im afraid, still youre guilty. No matter what.
The only Dawgs i see, belong to the alliance.
You do not agree to his approach but you choose to give me silly excuses instead of him, that reveals how alliance biased you are and honestly if you havent quoted it, you agree with him. Yet sylvanas is bad, you guys are all angels
As i said, alliance thought their price will bring them glory by killing horde. But their(your) sick “hero” ended up killing both and being the 2nd biggest menace after sargeras. Clap for alliance and their “heroes”
Its absurd when you are an alliance biased snowflake, alot of prove given so far but you choose to do what all these alliance do “im innocent- Horde bad”
It was not good for you, for me it was perfect. I actually wanna se the second druid RP tree burned down.
Now here is where your alliance bias and snowflake kicks in.
Because you point out crimes, then answer to crimes with crimes. That doesnt make you better, infact make you worse because you attacked horde allies inside your inability to attack horde.
I think you must re-enter the raid and look around you if you can actually see.
Also the king you killed make you criminals, because he had nothing to do with Sylvanas actions yet you cowardly killed him and stole off his gold.
I dont want to take her, just her head on the poles of Orgrimmar is what the horde needs.
Imagine a guy wo uses
To prove a non valid and irrelevant argument of his, inside game forums
Youre so funny
No, your fragile ego was hurt, if you’re attacking instead of debating, you pull ridiculous accusations while I tried to elaborate on my rethoric, you won’t spin it on me. So, sod off.
Its clearly yours that got hurt,
That proves it.
If you think that you can budge in the forums and force your opinions based on your bias im afraid the forums are not the place for you since not everyone shares your bias or even opinions.
Rhetors where called people who studied and where able to support their opinions without insults. They also know how to spell Rhetoric.
3:20 Banshee scream triggers blight and literally destroying the walls on them.
Now, now - did I hit a soft spot there?
Good debating skills.
What? 
Did you play only two missions in campaign WC3 and came up with that conclusion?
You have provided 0 proof of anything to be honest.
That’s not what was said though - Horde started a open War on Alliance, that much everyone knows is true - Undercity was answer to that war. Dont lose your composure.
Wasn’t Horde first one landing in Brennadam village, even before they decided to join Alliance? Hmm…
As of Zuldazar they joined the Horde in times of war, offered them their naval support, any state that provides military support to armies in war, paint red cross on their forehead.
UC was enough proof of that and two sieges of Orgrimmar.
Yes I have, the whole point of that mission was to get Rastakhan in order to sabotage the the alliance between two factions - which was stupid move.
So before you come up with next one sided non-arguement, just provide sources for the sake of not dragging this charade any further because I have a feeling Im debating with a kid whos candy has been taken away…
By the way “dismantle” is just a meme word that became famous because of Jaina back then at the end of MoP. Basically Blizzard didn’t want to make Jaina look “evil” so she had to say “dismantle” instead of “destroy” in the ear of Varian (leaving out the fact that she seemed evil anyway while saying it … 
)
and even in the case she didn’t actually mean “destroy” but just “de-militarize” the Horde, the result is the same… the Horde leaders clearly would refuse de-militarization because that would mean a loss of independence, and then the faction war would just resume.
So actually in any case, Jaina said “dismantle” but effectively meant “destroy” back then, as the result would be another faction war anyway…