Itemization in WoW Classic


#22

Yeah and I’m sure on whatever janky private server you played on with fantasy land loottables Bonereaver’s Edge was something that dropped all the time. Or maybe you could bribe a GM $50 to spawn one for you.

In actual Vanilla it was something you saw once or twice a year if you were lucky due to how insanely rare it was. So claiming that this magically “trivialises” the content is a ridiculously hyperbolic statement that invalidates your argument.

It’s the same with the complaints about the PvP gear, that’ll take you literal MONTHS of farming to get your hands on.

Feel free to list all the blue PvP set items that are better than BWL items. And then estimate how many people you think are going to spent months camping flight masters to tediously crawl their way to Rank 10 in Phase 2.


(Ståål) #23

I kinda understood why they chose the 1.12 talents as all the classes got their revamp by then, but Progressive Itemization was really the last chance to pull in the other direction.
As Meibhin noted this might kick the ball back into the Pservers court as the “real vanilla experience”.

:frowning:


#24

Well the main private server that most people use is shutting down once classic comes anyway so there will not be much in the way of options


(Meibhín) #25

We’ll see, they’ve said this before but they’ve also said its up in the air. The same goes for the current TBC servers, the general consesus is, if Blizzard don’t do the job properly then they will.


#26

True, but I know those guys are tired of it all. Whether Blizzard did the job properly or not will be open to opinion and it will depend on whether they think that some itemisation issues are enough to keep Light’s Hope rolling.

Ultimately, as I stated in my post above, the itemisation will not prove an issue if Blizzard re-balance things slightly. Some tweaks to ensure the difficulty is roughly the same as originally intended will mean it’s not a big problem. If they fail to do that, I can see more cause for concern.


#27

You don’t take into the account how much these items were buffed from 1.0 to 1.12. When you have only 1.12 items on you you are probably 30% more powerful than you would’ve been wearing gear that was available at launch. I know that they’re being careful about when to release the items but you can’t deny the claim that it makes the encounters way easier than they would’ve otherwise been.

Sure, everything takes months to obtain, but once you have it, you have it. And you go into BWL 30% more powerful than you would’ve been.


(Meibhín) #28

What’s more simple, easily obtained items such as the chest piece from the BRD arena is BIS until Naxxramas. That’s the reality of the approach they’re taking.


#29

Molten Core is a complete joke regardless. So I’m not sure what your issue is here? Do you think this introductory raid that that Jeff Kaplan and Scott Mercer cranked out in a week at the last possible moment is magically going to challenge you at all if your itemisation was suitably atrocious and you had a few less debuff slots.
Any challenge you may somehow remember from Molten Core was due to you having no idea how to play the game with a gaggle of similar clueless newbies with no idea how to play, spec, and gear their class.
Not to mention how progressive itemisation unfairly screws over casters. At least Rogues, Hunters and Warriors get a decent benefit from primary stats, the only benefit casters got from Int was mana and a tiny amount of spell crit. Anyone who actually remembers how utterly awful it was with 0 spell power on gear as a caster would not want progressive itemisation at all.


#30

If MC was such a joke why do you want to make it an even bigger joke? You could in the same way argue the rest of the raids are a joke, it’s just a game after all. You choose how seriously you treat the game, but just flat out giving us the 1.12 state of items is lazy. Though I do give them credit they’re halting the release of items that are too OP. It’s a grey area and I don’t support it, but it won’t prevent me from playing the game.

This is on par with their player retention philosophy, making the game more accessible. Wouldn’t expect anything else from this team tbh

It doesn’t MATTER that the pre-1.12 state of gear screws over casters, because that’s the way it was in vanilla back in those patches! Yes, you didn’t get spell power from gear but later on you did, that’s your story. In 1.12 you become a damage god and reck every other class with your stupid spell power gear


#31

rank 10 is not that hard to get, but you already know that. Its not like im against this approach btw, but i do understand that both of them has its pros and cons.


#32

Please, educate us on how “easy” it is to go from Rank 0 to Rank 10 on Phase 2 with only World PvP available as your source of honor.
I take it you’ll be doing this trivial task, and earning these blue items that totally invalidate BWL loot such as…


#33

you are really good at bending words, are you a politican by chance ?. I never said it was easy, its just not as hard as people make it out to be. It would most likely take anywhere from 6-12 weeks (depends on the amount of time you spend) to get rank 10 if you aren’t a complete sh’itter and have people to play with.


#34

These private servers you’re putting on a pedestal proved conclusively that adding progressive itemisation did nothing to slow down clear times of raids like MC. No matter what Blizzard do MC would still be cleared on week 2 with a group in dungeon blues just like it was on Nost, old itemisation, 8 debuff slots and all.

So even with custom tuning of bosses and crippling some dungeon gear the hardcore minmaxers are going to breeze through the content regardless. Then the only people who are being punished with some hackjob attempt at item progression will be the more casual players who have the audacity to want to play a non “meta” spec, the casters who, god-forbid, actually want gear with a bit of spell power on it, and anyone who didn’t read a google doc or website that tells them what pieces of gear to stick in their bank because some arbitrary update will magically make them worth equipping later on.

But by all means, go have fun on your busted private server, with corrupt GMs, bloated populations, broken quests and toxic playerbases. All to enjoy your “pure” itemisation that’ll do nothing to prevent Molten Core from being cleared effortlessly anyway.


#35

I’m personally ok with this. while we might miss out on some slightly more op earlier versions or gear, itll be nice to know that an item i farmed isnt suddenly going to change next patch. also just a tidbit but i often see those who are activists for #NoChages are also activists for making all the changes to make WoW Classic like private servers (nerfing/boosting certain areas and items) which deeply confuzzles me.


#36

I agree with the premise, but I’m concerned about the power of some items in their 1.12 state. Some items in their 1.12 state seem to be just made viable, but some seem too powerful for being available early on.

That’s just my impression after hearing a lot about “progressive itemization” and checking out many of the items that were updated. I haven’t played vanilla extensively, though.


(Meibhín) #37

You’re missing the point here which is that correct itemization makes the content more relevant for everyone, not just more enjoyable for the 1%.

We’re not just talking about the top 1% here we’re factoring in everyone, this is about people going in for their first time to experience the game not just no lifers that spend 24/7 grinding raids. They should be tuned appropiately to offer the most ‘accurate’ experience they can, as is their mission statement for the project, if the private servers you’re slandering as terrible can do the bare minimum then a multi-billion dollar company like Blizzard should be able to manage it.

See above.

You’re conflating elitism with items having overpowered stats that trivialize things to the point they should not be. Your posts have been biased towards casters so I’m just going to assume this is something you want personally not because of authenticity, or actual concern, but because -you- are looking at this through tunnel vision as a caster and want an easier time.

Unless they stop a lot of pieces (and I mean A LOT) from dropping despite being in the relevant phrase we’re going to see people wearing BIS blues from 5 man dungeons all the way to Naxxramas. I shouldn’t have to emphasize why that’s not acceptable. The reward of tackling content is the loot drops and once you remove that you make the point of doing that content a moot one.

2 years of perfect functioning has gone quite well but what you need to understand is that as soon as Blizzard releases the official values these servers will adjust their own. They’re all using the Nost core which has been improved upon significantly, we’re at the point where well over 500 people can be in the same zone with out any lag server side. It’s leapfrogged significantly in quality which is why I think we’re even getting these servers. This data is open source. Blizzard infact ran a server using Nost’s code and were impressed according to Nano, that was years ago at the Nost meeting.

The former is rare and leads to the server shutting down if it isn’t kept in check, the latter is a compromise. The trade off is that it is entirely free.

See this is the “I have never played on Light’s hope” type of rebuttal I was expecting.

Now this is true.

Look I could use hyperbole and throw around generalizations about what the live servers will be given BFA and the actual server performance during a WPVP expansion which has been laughably bad, but there is a REASON project 1999 despite being an abhorrent pain to install is still popular despite there being offical Classic Everquest servers. Blizzard are shooting themselves in the foot here unnecessarily and no amount of exaggeration or your passive aggression is going to change that. If you think this is only going to affect MC or the top 1% you are ill informed. You’re presenting a false dichotomy. This isn’t a black or white situation that can’t be resolved they could have tried to find a reasonable compromise like they did with loot trading.


(Lunalights) #38

Stealing your line :slight_smile:


(Zamuro) #39

god bless u, classic team, u are doing amazing. this is the best thing that has happened to wow after wotlk. love u :slight_smile: :ok_hand:. top quality, just like old blizzard.


#41

“our aim has been to accurately fully restore the original games mechanics and stats…(abbreviated)”

This means that the weather stuff will be gone, that was much later. And furthermore, On the darkshore <-> Menethil Harbor boat will have its old captain back; “Captain Placeholder” – he wasnt “fixed” out of the game until Cataclysm? if I remember correctly :stuck_out_tongue:


(Uaral) #42

If they are only going to have the 1.12 items, wouldn’t it be smarter to just hold off with some of them and have them coincide with the phase they were changed and add them to the loot table then?