It's time for Vashj and KT to be nerfed - check the timeline from original TBC

[Sonicwave-antonidas]

Week 1 - 3 raid days 9/10 down
Week 2 - 3 raid days 10/10 down
Week 3 - 2 raid days 10/10 down (parserun)
Week 4 - 1 raid day 10/10 down in <2:30h (speedrun)

The difficutly is only in finding a good, stable roster. The bosses are a complete joke (post threat reset fix).

[Darx-zandalar-tribe]

see that’s how it should be done.
Or you think he has a big epeen too

A guild should get faster every week. You should remember the tactics from last time, allowing you to focus more on efficiency. It’s called progression not stagnation.

[Toohottodott-bloodfang]

@Softywalter-shazzrah

Patch 2.1 was Black Temple release so nerfing the bosses when we get BT seems reasonable.

That’s the other way of looking at it for sure - but I disagree.

In practice, nerfing them alongside BT means many guilds (as in, every 8/10 guild or guilds not reliably killing the end bosses now) will need to continue working on Tier 5 for many weeks before they’ll have a viable, T6-attuned squad. This is how it worked in original BC.

But because of the delayed release schedule in TBC classic, that would mean much more time focused on T5 and much less time on T6, way different how it was in original.

There’s basically two ways of reading the original TBC release schedule - the ‘in theory’ schedule, that suggested that T5 was playable at launch and T6 roughly 4 months after, and the ‘in practice’ approach wherein T5 was only really clearable when BT dropped, and Tier 6 wasn’t meaningfully tackled by most guilds for months after.

Blizzard are forcing the ‘in practice’ schedule with their phase structure - and under the ‘in practice’ schedule, we should already have the KT/Vashj nerfs imo.

I don’t see what is wrong with this at all. TBC always had guilds at all levels of progression, it was one of the things that made the game so great.

[Raccoglitoro-nemesis]

At the moment the major gatekeeping fact for both Hyjal and Black Temple is the fact both Hyjal and Black Temple are not available yet. I’m not sure nerfing SSC and or TK will fix that.

[Kellarr-firemaw]

Interesting

[Gottwald-firemaw]

These raids, while not hard, same as the whole of TBC (Not hard now I mean) are actually getting nerfed with each week.

How so ? Well, if you do 8/10 that means you are getting the majority of the loot each week. So you do more dps, healing etc etc. So if you cant pull the dmg or healing now just give it a few more weeks and you should be able to brute strength it down.

Not flaming anyone… but Vanilla comes out and ppl flame its ez. Then TBC comes out w/o nerfs and people scream its hard ! News flash, its all piss easy, its just not gonna roll over on the first try like vanilla did.

To nerf it now with months and months left before Hyjal and BT would just be dumb. Keep.Farming.Gear

[Gnodora-zandalar-tribe]

@Shaquanda-razorgore

Let me get this straight.
For the first time since Classic released two years ago we have content where two of the ten bosses are actually somewhat difficult. It’s been a couple of weeks since the release of this phase and you are already crying for nerfs because every single guild hasn’t completely cleared all the content. Is that correct?
No wonder this game went down the toilet.

@Xerxjin-pyrewood-village

I have not killed them yet but I feel that my guild is able to do so in following weeks. Nerfing the bosses would destroy the fun for me.

/thread

There’s not much else to be said really.

[Xalvia-gehennas]

stop crying and wait for T6

[Sonicwave-antonidas]

No nerfs till T6 plz, get good

[Miylee-twilights-hammer]

…In original TBC, Vashj and KT were available at the start, so they had a few more months of pre-nerf fights.

[Remchan-earthshaker]

the Ol’roster boss is the hardest in classic tbc IMO.

[Xullumbrosc-zandalar-tribe]

I don’t even think they should nerf the bosses. Just reduce trash HP by about 50%. Or get rid of half the packs.

I know omegalol speed running guild can A-move through both instances in 2.5-3.5 hours now, but they are spending under an hour on bosses and then say 90-150 extra minutes clearing trash.

When you look at bad guilds (i.e. mine) our boss kills aren’t dramatically slower. We just seem to be very bad at mowing through rubbish. I know someone’s going to rush in saying “its part of the process m8” - but is using something like 75% of your raid time on trash really in anyone’s interest?

[Richdude-nordrassil]

@Xullumbrosc-zandalar-tribe

I know someone’s going to rush in saying “its part of the process m8” - but is using something like 75% of your raid time on trash really in anyone’s interest?

Yea, I just hate having to spend time with my guild mates to get loot…

[Darx-zandalar-tribe]

I know someone’s going to rush in saying “its part of the process m8” - but is using something like 75% of your raid time on trash really in anyone’s interest?

Absolutely right, that’s why AQ40 was the raid that most guilds gave up on instantly during Classic when Naxx came out. Unlike BWL and MC which a lot of people were far more willing to rerun.

Can’t wait for AQ40 to completely kill what’s left of SoM by that time. Imagine doing that trash slog after Twin Emps without world buffs (and not as geared). Yikes

[Krudtuglenn-firemaw]

nerfing the bosses with the next phase seems fine

[Arturus-nethergarde-keep]

There is no need for any nerf. It’s not like they were mathematically impossible to kill, they just require a bit of practice and coordination, that’s all. We left Vashj at 4% on our last try so she will probably go down on the next lockout. KT we haven’t even tried yet xD. There is no rush, at least for us.

[Shaquanda-razorgore]

@Darx-zandalar-tribe

Absolutely right, that’s why AQ40 was the raid that most guilds gave up on instantly during Classic when Naxx came out. Unlike BWL and MC which a lot of people were far more willing to rerun.

Can’t wait for AQ40 to completely kill what’s left of SoM by that time. Imagine doing that trash slog after Twin Emps without world buffs (and not as geared). Yikes

I don’t think it’s so much the amount of trash after Twin Emps that’s the problem as the fact that that trash in particular is extremely god damn annoying. Personally I quite enjoy the trash parts in general, except for the previously mentioned part in AQ. Also, if I were to guess I’d say that the problem for a lot of guilds that find trash too time consuming is not that the mobs take to long to kill, rather that people die on every pull or they’re just slow to pull the next pack for whatever reason.

[Gnodora-zandalar-tribe]

@Shaquanda-razorgore

I don’t think it’s so much the amount of trash after Twin Emps that’s the problem as the fact that that trash in particular is extremely god damn annoying. Personally I quite enjoy the trash parts in general, except for the previously mentioned part in AQ. Also, if I were to guess I’d say that the problem for a lot of guilds that find trash too time consuming is not that the mobs take to long to kill, rather that people die on every pull or they’re just slow to pull the next pack for whatever reason.

Guilds that aren’t stacking casters and shaman are definitely going to struggle on clear times purely because of those the buffs, self explanatory as it might be that’s essentially what it is most of the time. The difference is literally just having four shamans rotated in to your group to pop heroism + drums provided you have all the correct buffs for the group setup, do the same for a caster heavy raid and it’s a much easier, faster, clear time.

[Shaquanda-razorgore]

@Gnodora-zandalar-tribe

Guilds that aren’t stacking casters and shaman are definitely going to struggle on clear times purely because of those the buffs, self explanatory as it might be that’s essentially what it is most of the time. The difference is literally just having four shamans rotated in to your group to pop heroism + drums provided you have all the correct buffs for the group setup, do the same for a caster heavy raid and it’s a much easier, faster, clear time.

Obviously it’ll be easier if you have the perfect meta comp, but it’s perfectly doable with a “normal” comp. My rather casual guild could do it with 2x3h raids a week and having a full melee dps group. It took us a few weeks and quite a few wipes, but we managed to get 10/10 eventually.

[Aristotallos-tarren-mill]

nerfs will come, the orginial content cycle used to be “Kill it before the nerfs”