but dont say Havoc is bad because it rlly isnt, the only thing they have a weakness on is ST as Fire mages have Weaknesses at ST and Fury Warrior also
so ye you are better then me i dont care in the end its downing a boss that matters.
`https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/26
We’re behind every class except Hunter ( who just got nerfed ) on DPS.
Soooo… in raids and M+ ?
Sorry, had to jump in here. Aside from the discussion between you guys and in my opinion you should just accept that people have different opinions.
Other then the Master you are doing we (I) don’t know much about you. But if that is ‘all’ you are doing (not that getting a master isn’t a feat on it’s own) you are not busy, trust me.
I just had to laugh 
cause I once thought the same way. We (partner and I) we’re building a house on our own bought piece of land while moving four times in 3 years, both having full time jobs while she was studying on the side and my job forces me to be in different countries 3/4 part of the year and we had some … “to personal stuff to disclose on this forum” going on thought we we’re busy…
Then we became a family by expending our home with a twin boy and girl… That’s when it really got busy. Just the twins and a job with a long ago finished house. If the time the twins daily take would have been spent in wow back in the day I would have been a world class player🤣!! Granted it’s twins but still, I’ll quote a good colleague/friend of mine:
“You don’t know what busy is until you have kids”. And he was so absolutely right!
Totally of topic but late night getting ready to sleep this little post out of all the discussions going on made me smile.
On topic; I’m a filthy casual so pugging is the name of the game. Everyone wanting to be the meta is what ‘ruins’ my game in my opinion. There will always be a strongest and a weakest class. The thing is; the bar for getting dungeons done is so ‘low’ you never ever need the meta classes to succeed. Yes DH is a lot weaker then most imo but that should not matter. The only reason it gets in the way is the general lifestyle of today; The hunger for instant gratification combined with only ourselves in mind leads to want to always go the seemingly road of least resistance. Not noticing that this could suck the fun out of gaming (and in larger part life).
Even if it takes the fun away, when we can shave of 1 min of a dungeon which we can do within 15 mins of the time limit we ‘have’ to. Bloody shame in my opinion.
A class being strong or weak isn’t a matter of opinion, it’s a matter of numbers. That’s why I get pissed when people come in with some anecdotal evidence from their rank 4000 guild or some random +8 pug.
This stuff is well documented over dozens if not HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of parses. It’s really not debatable.
In Castle Nathria every class except Hunter ranks higher than Demon Hunter on DPS.
And being pissed at something you cannot change is just gonna make you pissed and nothing else.
The point is, you wont change ppl opinion even if you show them miles of data cause ppl (i) dont give a rats behind what youre showing, (ii) have preformed opinions that are influenced by the general opinion of the class made from hear say, (iii) have an 1 out of 100 exp where dh got rng lucky and killed someone in 1 global, got really lucky procs and was 4th on details, did something crazy in m+ which saved the wipe and is a hero to that party but in reality it was pure luck and even that dh doesnt know what he was doing.
Also Blizzard doesnt care either cause they got have reports about the state of dps and they did nothing for months, and after months of data they do the same crap as they always do, put something on ptr and nerf it day before release.
Its pointless and getting pissed will just give ppl a reason to “troll” you even more 
This thread had a sudden 180 turn several times now.
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Oh sure I believe you. Being a casual means I can only judge how classes function by checking data and/or forums. Numbers show DH is one of the weakest dps’ers at the moment of this writing.
All I’m saying is you could take a raid full of demon hunters and still succeed. There will always be a weakest and strongest class. If you say that you cannot play the class because it is the weakest then there will always be an unplayable class. I disagree with that notion. We can’t all be at the top of the meters. The problem is us the community. We only want to take the highest numbers because we can’t imagine having to work for anything (Sad thing is even with the weakest classes the ‘work’ part isn’t all that bad). We all want the purple pixels as fast and as easy as possible. What the community doesn’t realise is the easier it gets, the less fun it becomes. Imagine waking up tomorrow having all the so called BiS items plus all the fun items and mounts that you want… What then is there to do…? Imagine all the players waking up to that ‘dream’… Then what? If you claim that then is when the game starts we might as well not have items since we all have the same anyway. Why not give em all and then ‘start playing’…
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dear blizzard.
this is my 1st time ever that im writhing something in a forum. And sadly im saying that its not fun anymore playin Havoc!
Im 220ilvl and 1.3 rio… and no fu@ one acept us to do m+. its insane!
no one wants havoc. our single target its not good.
Are you gona do sommething about it or are you waiting for more players like me stop playing the game?
farewell
I wouldnt mind being the weakest class in the game if the opinion of the people wouldnt be so elitist.
MDI and worlds first raiders make this game unplayable for us that are below what MDI uses…its all about the easy runs and at this moment ranged is what people want. A lot of the mythic afflixes are towards melees as well. Hurricanes are pain in the backside for us and spiteful hurts us more too. Ranged have easier time just pew pewing from afar while we have to dodge mechanics and afflixes.
This game is ruined by the mindset of people that classes that are below certain line shouldnt be taken to anything. Also people just assume that inviting the MDI loved classes mythics and raids suddenly become oh so much easier.
I’ve topped boomkins in our raids and mythic + just because i can play better than they can. If those big number girls and boys cant do more than press convoke and starfall they arent going to beat us in dps or they might because they are so broken but it doesnt make them better players.
All this said i still want this game to be as balanced as it can be… games like this can never achieve 100% balance but at this moment there is quite a difference between few top classes and the rest
Of course you can change it. You post complaints, reroll so that the logs show just how few DH mains exist, tweet at the devs and flood Reddit and the Forums until they get tired of it and do something.
That’s how change is made. Not by sitting by and doing nothing.
Blizz, the numbers speak truths. Most squishy in PVP, Low dps in raids. Only class with only 2 specs, damage or tank… Make us great again.
Like I said, we’re aholes… That’s not havoc thats us!
If havoc gets a buff, someone else will be at the bottom of the barrel with the same issue… You ‘have’ to be meta… the playerbase is the problem.
Hell yeah I’m trash. Just own it.
That’s why they need to do small, incremental buffs. But they aren’t. They’re sitting with their thumb up their behind.
If they kept doing the small 2-3% buffs every week or 2 weeks we’d eventually see balance.
You got me there. If you just increase the numbers very slightly you should be able to get em all close. I’d be very interested to see if the gap becomes really small if the community does take ‘non meta’ classes/specs into their dungeon runs.
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I know i am a noob because i never do a 15 keys and mythic runs, but flat % buffs will not benefit ST havoc dps because the reason is if they do that or keep doing that ouer Cleave will be over the top immo, blizz needs to work at ouer ST attacks instead maybe its stupid what i say.
And why is that an issue? Mage, Lock and Druid are broken both on cleave and on ST.
https://www.darklegacycomics.com/765
How hard is it for them to simply buff chaos strike or add a new single target ability to boost st dps.
That comic said it all how melee life is compared to ranged 