I’m doing fairly well as DH on the beta. Doing tons of damage as 3/4 covenants are all good for different reasons, and with conduits I’m tanky enough.
Honestly just tired of seeing people say the class is garbage and cry. Like… have you actually tried it out? And tried different talents and covenants? Blade dance dodge being removed is good. It was beyond broken. I mained WW for the last 2 expansions finally I can play DH without auto-winning because it’s a stupid class.
I did manage to get some insane burst going for me though…
Short video I did:
Almost every class at some point has been this low though that’s what I’m getting at. Plenty of classes have launched into expansions unfinished or been so bad in content they’re refused entirely.
Almost every spec, is more right to say, has been low at some point, for sure. But this is really bad, comparable to ret paladin in pve in vanilla.
If lets say a warrior dps spec gets nerfed to this point, the other dps spec will most likely be a viable choice.
Most specs have at least 2 dps specs, and then you have rogue, hunter, mage and lock with 3.
Only dh, priest, pala and monk have only 1 dps spec, and when that one gets nerfed to the ground to the meme spec level, there is no choice but to either tank/heal (But that isnt for everyone and not everyone wants to tank and heal)
So if wanting to be viable in endgame content they have to reroll. One thing is the nerfs. Other and worse thing is the community stigma.
Even in 8.3 i had hard times getting invited to mythics over +15 with my ret pala, and easy time doing the same with my havoc, and ret wasnt even bad, actually it scaled pretty damned well with borrowed powers and i did just as good numbers on my ret as on my dh - and providing more utility to the group at the same time.
Its world of mage/lock/roguecraft. Most other specs are expendable it seems.
Windwalker monk remained the worst DPS for a entire expansion. Ironically another class added later in the game…
Frost DKs got nerfed into oblivion not long ago and now completely suck and people are expecting unholy to be hit too.
Ironically all the added classes:rofl:
.
However on a serious note - yes at it stands up havoc’s not in a great position. But in all honesty they aren’t the worst.
Enhancement shaman is performing multiple times worse then havoc and elemental was too up to recently.
Havoc’s lower mid pack, compared to some classes that’s OP… both warrior speccs below havoc on Beta currently.
They are already bottom of the meters and they do even less DPS in sl
Arms and fury do less DPS then Havoc, so if you think you’ve got it bad what u gonna say about warriors. Our PvP looks decent, but PvE wise we are really in a bad place.
So are DKs potientally. Because they’ve nerfed them continuously… in all honesty every melee except rogue has been smashed down the totem pole. Litterally rogue is so far proving to be the only melee worthwhile playing
Yep and its the same thing. Tho monks havent been hated to the same degree, and i suspect the extreme dh nerf comes as a consequence of all the community hate.
But still the same. Classes with 1 dps spec and that spec is trash. While classes with 2 and 3 dps specs have 2 or even 3 viable options and some of them 1-2 op broken options. And its the same ones every year almost.
At least they got UH to switch to. Not very likely that both of them will be totally trash.
Another example but again they have 2 dps specs. But dps shamans havent been meta for a long time.
Havoc got some bad legendaries. At least one warrior spec will be over havoc.
Luckily i dont main havoc. But i main paladin tho. Suffering some of the same, even tho ret looks good now, they have a history in being nerfed into oblivion aswell. But i switch between ret and holy. But from a dps perspective, another class with 1 dps spec.
Rogue always have specs on the top. Every year. And they get no hate. Sub is op now, maybe nerfs incoming but outlaw/assa one of them if not both will shine, tho outlaw doesnt look good now but rogue are one of blizz golden babies and people community would be violated if rogues were put in the same spot as shamans, dks, etc.
Just imagine, dps tier list for sl currently gets turned upside down.
Shamans and druid on top, rogues mages locks on bottom.
It’s actually said that current essences are a higher DPS increase then warrior legendaries.
The warrior legendaries were nerfed. They are also bad entirely. I’m afraid I don’t exactly know what they’re long term is…
I dunno if they’re trying to nerf every borrowed power so it’s all beneath a 5% gain to then buff the speccs themselves afterwards . Or what
But the balancing tuning is pretty much just deleting speccs over night currently.
But warriors will go down in DPS not up in SL current warrior in prepatch is the best its ever gonna be unless they change something
Remember early bfa. Sub rogue and ret pala oneshotted everything. Sub got nerfed to being really bad, ret back to mediocre (High burst but terrible mobility and easily kited)
Sub also has a rumour to be a very complicated spec, id say its not complicated at all but this together with being bottom tier = no one played it almost.
But thats blizzards way of balancing. Nerf, nerf, nerf, take away anything that is fun. Instead of boosting those who needed to appr. same level as current meta.
Think it would’ve been enough if DH just got the dodge removed from Blade Dance / Death Sweep.
You are dying to through Blur right now. Conduits may fix this, but you need to realize that the stronger specs also have access to them. So you get onpar normal and they get even stronger, its just silly.
I also dont get the logic behind this either. The Class should function without borrowed power, and not always rely on it waiting 1-2 years to be decent again.
Can’t you guys give us a break ?
Delete DH because they’re OP
Delete DH because they’re useless
Hell I’ll gladly take some underpowered stages if it can cool off the massive amount of idiots hating on the class while not even playing it or understanding its flaws.
3 Likes
After a few failed M+ runs and a dozen rejects I did a little bit of a test:
- my 133 ilvl DH is doing ~2,1k single target dps on a dummy for 3 min fight, running 1121111 talents and almost BiS gear and essences. I think i managed to hit with all unbound chaos rushes.
- my 113 ilvl UH DK is doing ~2k single target dps, running 3132323, not very good essences or gear, I barely played this alt.
- my 105 ilvl F DK is doing ~1,5k single target dps, running 1223312, with completely random essences and trash gear, I just finished leveling him before the prepatch and got a few pieces from low M+ and normal raid runs.
I don’t think it’s really normal for a heroic-level geared alt to do the same amount of dps as a previously fully geared main (480 ilvl before the prepatch)
Another thing I noticed is UBC is useless in solo open world/questing - ok, I cast immo aura, rush into the mob or pack of mobs, and then what? They follow me when I run away, no chance to use it again.
If things don’t DRASTICALLY change I don’t think I’ll ever get invited in anything above +10 keys in SL. Not only havoc’s damage is extremely low, the rotation is completely broken - why should I leave combat every time I want to have a chance to deal damage, and that is only available in group content? Why is my rotation only 2 (TWO) spells and 3 more on CD?
Yes, initially I liked havoc because of the simple rotation, extreme mobility and very good sustain (I prefer not to depend on others to run my solo content - visions now and Torghast in SL).
What do I have now? Literally 2 buttons to press, no mobility because it is needed to do damage, and from what I read - completely gutted sustain.
Before the jackals come gnawing at me - yes, I realise I’m not some top end player, but I managed to hold my own in +20 keys.
3 Likes
“Tho monks”
What are tho monks? 
What’s with all the doom and gloom on these class forums, I mean yeah we got nerves but I bet DH is gonna be just fine.
113 ilvl dk alt does the same single target dps as a 133 ilvl dh
Not gonna be fine if it stays like that
1 Like
At level 50. Nothing is tuned for this, it’s all tuned for covenant abilities etc, newer gear. All the doom speakers should maybe chill a bit. It’s not like you are all world first racers who really need to min-max everything.
So you’re saying only HDH is getting legendaries and conduits, no other class is getting them? Good to know.
And speaking of legendaries, let’s have a little breakdown:
- Burning wound - 5% AP over 15 sec. Truly outstanding.
- Chaos theory - 10% chance on a useless 10 sec cd spell to make one of the two spells you have do some damage. Hm…
- Darker nature - killing something with Eyebeam has 25% chance to convert their soul fragment into 20% dmg buff. Ok, so I need to kill something with Eyebeam, which almost never happens even in solo play, let alone raid or M+, this thing has to drop a soul fragment (unknown % chance), and then have 25% to convert this soul fragment into 20% dmg buff for 10 sec. Will anyone see this effect proc for the whole first tier/ first M+ season?
- Erratic fel core - 30% cd reduction on fel rush. Great, something that i always dreamed of having (/s). Probably useful for momentum builds, too bad it is both boring and dangerous to use in dungeons.
- Collective anguish - the only somewhat useful legendary, too bad this legendary further reinforces the Cycle of Hatred’s “pump Chaos strike and nothing else” playstile.
Speaking of momentum/UBC - did the devs forget how they design raids and dungeons? SotS second boss, UR last boss, AD last boss, TD third and especially last boss - have fun using fel rush for damage. I haven’t played SL beta, but i doubt there aren’t bosses with similar mechanics.
On the other hand we have UHDK’s legendaries:
- Death’s certainty - 35% dmg increase on your RP dump spell and reduce the CD of DnD/DD? Certainly nice synergy with Death’s Due covenant spell and Harbinger of Doom talent.
- Frenzied Monstrosity - 12% attack speed AND damage for both you AND your pet. What more can one ask for?
- Phearomones - 15% hate while in DnD or DD. Not the best, but 15% haste with quite good uptime is never useless.
Can you HONESTLY tell me there is anything in DH’s arsenal which comes even close to DK’s? Even with UH having high downtime, they still do more damage with diseases and pets than DHs constantly running back and forth, trying to squeeze 1 UBC in.
I am in no way saying “nerf UHDKs” - on the contrary, they seem fun and in acceptable condition despite their downtime.
My DH is doing double dps than this priest.
So idk.
I think raid-wise when we finally get our full kit, we will be back up in the middle of the pack again come SL like we always were in Nyalotha and that’s honestly fine. Raid teams will still need a DH for the debuff/mobility to do tactics and if less people are playing it we might even be more desirable. Our kit is built for mythic + with darkness, aoe stuns and slows, cage etc. and if mage/unholy dk/lock are as strong as they seem to be then they will love to have us to further boost their numbers (that was the reason why we were so popular before in mythic + as well!). It also looks like we will generally be pulling smaller in dungeons as well so target cap won’t be too much of an issue.
And as for the leech/dodge nerfs in pvp well, we can’t worry too much about our lack of survivability if mortal rush drags other classes self heals down to our level as well 
We are actually looking pretty strong for PVP which is where I’d be mostly taking my DH in anyway, so I’m happy with that.
For now in prepatch to pass the time I’ve just specced to Vengence because I don’t find the current havoc 2 button rotation very fun right now and its nice to tank for a change anyway.
Well if outlook is so grim for you then switch over to something that is more “OP” when the expac launches. I’m not saying DH doesn’t have it’s share of issues but so does every other class. Might not be as much or might be more. I’m just tired of all the doom sayers. For me it looks ok so I’ll be playing DH. Like I said I’m not rushing world first mythic raid clears so why bother, who knows were we will be 2 months in xpac. I’ll see what the lego’s bring etc, I don’t do min-maxing and I like to find out what works best as I play through SL and I’m sure I’m not the only one who plays like this but hey, to each his own right?
The thing is when I come to the class forum I just see doom and gloom.
For me Blizzard just totally broke the class.
Mediocre tank right now, mediocre DPS.
In BFA I was main DH tank, just because for me was the most fun tank, lots of aoe dmg, high mobility, but I know was not the best class to be a tank.
But now, that also the vengeance dps and heal was nerfed… pff…
I’ll play Monk or DK.
DH was never OP, you can see in the pvp leader boards. But ppl cry because don’t know the class and blizz looks like listened the trolls.
