Hello, I am here to formally complain about the interaction between Touch of Karma and Blessing of Protection in PvP. In my mind, it makes no sense that boping the karma target removes both the DoT and the defensive aspect on the monk. First of all, Karma is Nature damage, why would it be removed by BoP when all it does is protect against physical damage? Secondly, why does boping the karma target remove MY buff?
I think Karma is a really wierdly coded spell, and it should be reworked into an undispellable Shield on the monk that is not removed by BoP. This way, it could still have some counterplay by warriors with Shattering Throw and Evokers with their anti-shield spell, but it wouldn’t be straight up erased by paladins. Also, making it into a shield would make it easier for the monk to see how much protection we have left. What’s your opinion on this topic?
2 Likes
The dot from karma is nature but karma debuff itself is a physical thing so it can be removed with bop.
It’s not gamebreaking, karma is like what, 1m30 2m? Bop is 3min CD and can be punished later.
It’s understandable that it’s frustrating but same happen with ice block getting shatter/MD.
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I think it’s overly punishing because BoPing the Karma target both makes it immune to all of the monk’s damage and removes our best defensive in a time of need (that’s why we pressed it), it leaves no room for the monk to keep playing the game, it’s a straight up checkmate on all fronts.
i think the answer to this should be buffing all monks other defensives yet again so their 2 walls will be at minimum 50 maximum 70 and also karma should be 1minute and its damage should be increased by another 50% because 46k ticks arent nearly enough to kill people meanwhile monk is smashing 50k blackouts and 150k rising sun kicks with no cds up
and also make fists cd 10 seconds baseline so monk will be fisting all melees for 300 bucks
2 Likes
I think your argument is dishonest because monk damage has nothing to do with this topic’s discussion. What I’m arguing is that the interaction in question makes no intuitive sense at all and the whole Karma spell is extremely poorly explained in game. Furthermore, the rework I propose would still have counterplay by 2 classes instead of 1, but at least it would make sense within the rules of the game.
I do agree that monk damage should be adjusted in PvP, and we all know that between patches, classes always go up or down in damage, sometimes ww does a ton of damage and other times it does regular or subpar damage, but this interaction should be fixed for the betterment of the game’s clarity.
There’s tons of weird things in the game with interactions of spells. My favourite is roar of sacrifice which “makes attacks against the target unable to crit”, making things like Combustion, which increase your crit chance by 100% do no crits. Then you have chaos bolt that always crits, but still lands against RoS due to the way its coded, despite the wording which should basically make you immune to crits and thus chaos bolt.
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Rotating defensive cd’s as monk u have like 70% of the game uptime and it’s tankiest spec that ever been while being most broken melee atm.
2 Likes
u cant have both absurd damage and all 4 uncounterable defensives
there have to be at least SOME counters to each
as there is none to damage its the defensives which can be countered
but at the moment its only possible to counter fists with instant projectile cc and karma with bop
Well, I think all of these interactions should be streamlined to work the same. To add to your example, roar of sacrifice makes the target completely immune to Eye Beam (with the always crit talent). I encourage anyone to post topic on the forums complaining about this type of interactions, since we all want the game to be accessible and intuitive to new players.
ok i see reported for trolling
I don’t understand why you and the russian lock keep making this argument. Damage and defensives have nothing to do with my post. Last patch WW was dumpster tier and the interaction was the same, next patch, you might be complaining about some other class being broken and the interaction will still be the same.
2 Likes
lets also remove bubble md interaction and redemeer-md interaction with my(affli) dots and fade-md interaction with my dots and leave the game with 3 dps buttons and 3 defensive buttons
Yep, this interaction among many others is just a spit in customers faces. Pala class simply destroys every other class mechanics by having easy access to all the immunities that are instant and cost them nothing. Thats why paladin is the most played class in pvp. Why tryhard anything, when you can just pop random instant button and carry on doing your stuff ignoring other classes mechanics.
So… basically we should change all the interactions thats annoying?
So remove mass dispel/every dispel and purge.
Reflects.
All immunities/ice block.
etc etc etc.
No, the ice block-md interaction makes sense, you use ice block, i use mass dispel on you to counter it, this removes your defensive, but it makes you able to resume your attack, also, this interaction is direct, meaning that I use Mass Dispel on YOU, the BoP thing is used on your ally, but it indirectly affects the monk. The karma-bop interaction doesn’t make sense because you are using BoP as a defensive that makes you immune to all of my damage and also removes my defensive, making it an absolute, unfair counter. Not to mention that Karma’s tooltip doesn’t even give you a hint that this might happen. It says it deals Nature damage, but the DoT itself is of the physical type.
It doesnt make sense since it removes your defensive, it literally removes a defensive due to one spell. Almost like a 5min CD BoP but better.
I didnt know that when WWs use karma paladins insta BoP the person that its being used on. Feels like a massive issue they are using a defensive for that sole purpose huh.
Mass dispel is an unfair counter to most things aswell.
Shattering throw could also be considered unfair counter.
Wrecking Throw could also be considered unfair counter.
Because they counter defensives quite hard.
So to me it mostly feels like you want to change counters to things because rets annoys you x)
If you want something thats weirdly coded look at Cheat Death for rogues.
Touch of Karma do not have a weird coding what ive understood and played with it.
But if you want the tooltip to explain to you that the skill is physical, then I guess they could do that? Or if you are unsure, wowhead got all skills where you can check the school of things.
What I’m arguing is that one spell should not be able to counter both the defensive and offensive aspects of another, while also making the target immune to all of the monk’s damage. I would be perfectly ok if Karma were to be remade into a shield for the monk and a Nature DoT for its target, that are both separate of each other. This way, you could counter the dot by dispelling it (and, if they were separate, I would even be ok with BoP dispelling it) or immuning it, and you could counter the shield of the monk with anti-shield spells, but not both at the same time with 1 spell.
Or just remove the dmg aspect of it and just make it another normal unfun defensive. 
The dmg is based on the hits you take which you transfer. Changing that will just make it into another stupid defensive with no thought process.
If you keep Blessing of Protection the way it is right now along with all the benefits that crept in the paladin spellbook… why wouldn’t mages keep dps’ing during ice block ? lol
You see where this is going now…
And thats why WW overshadows rets in 3s above 1800 rating right? Because of karma being dispelled by a 5min cd bop xd
Since you made that argument, atleast then we can talk about why dont everyone have the same mobility as ww? Same defensives as ww? A teleport like ww? Same hard hitting abilities like ww? Same ring of peace ability for everyone? Instant AoE stun for everyone? Paralyze? And list can go on depending on how you want to see and compare x)
You see where this is going now…
Its easy to argue based on what you dont like facing which is understandable. But complaining and wanting a change based on it… Right.
And the way you compare ice block and divine shield/BoP clearly shows your inability to understand the differences between specs in general xd
Do rets have the same mobility?
Do rets have the same ranged on abilities?
They could easly reduce the dmg done in divine shield sure. But how you compare them makes a huge difference.
In short: Why are people stuck with comparing skills/spells when the classes/specs works differently.