The thing about new players I said also applies to classic players. Imagine a classic player trying retail for the first time and picking a hard class. Lots of people have the expectation to get the best gear and do end game content, but this game is extremely hard to just pick up and enjoy easily, which is a shame. I’ve heared the game used to be way simpler. How does blizzard expect some 50 years old from classic who clicks his spells to pick up a class and have a good experience, when so many are very hard to grasp at a base level like rogue? Not saying the game should be extremely simple, but it should have a good learning curve that feels better. Nobody should feel like they have to use stuff like Hekili to pilot their character normally.
The complexity of PvE damage rotations and all the micro cc and micro defensives is also very annoying in PvP, and it’s a bad experience for noobs. If they wanna make PvE more difficult, make harder dungeons/raids, not harder DPS rotations, because the latter is very bad for a lot of people.
They should pick something easier, or an easier version of that spec, and if such a version does not exist that can achieve ample performance for mid range content then such a thing should exist to let them familiarise / still do what they want to do and maybe add more complex elements in exchange for higher potential performance.
I partially agree, but I still think the difference between a bad player and a pro player in Damage output is too big in wow. Skill cap is good, but it’s overexaggerated and the skill floor is horrendous for a lot of specs. Just count the abilities some classes get by level 30. I’ve seen a thread on the forums recently about a rogue complaining that he’s dying to quest mobs constantly and he can’t basically play the game despite using suggested talents. Doing damage should not be rocket science. If you wanna have rocket science, make such mythic raids, not damage rotations imo. It’s not that I want to deprive people from their enjoyment in parsing and doing complicated damage rotations. The problem is though that this type of enjoyment has really bad influence on game modes like PvP, and it messes up the learning curve in the game. Also, how many buttons should a spec have until it’s too much with all the micro utility? A lot of buttons is not just about an enjoyment thing for the player. It’s also annoying to deal with a class in pvp, who has 60 abilities, just because some mythic+ pro player wants to push his absolute boundaries.
I don’t think any of the specs I play has too many buttons, my main has the option to reduce the number of buttons it has for a very slight dip in potential performance and the majority of its performance comes from optimising a few core things and players can do everything except compete with the best players in the highest content by just optimising those few core things because most people are trying to run before they can walk. I don’t think players trying to run before they can walk is a class design problem, it’s a problem with the game not showing people how to walk or giving effective “walking pace” options that compete at a mid level of performance.
Before we had BFA talent trees we had something called the “left hand rule” and it was that, with a few minor exceptions, every single left side choice was a passive. If someone wanted to they could pick the whole left side and talents would add zero buttons to their rotation and their damage / output would still be “fine”. Something like that should absolutely be applied to the DF talent tree design.
It doesn’t matter. All 3 are easy to understand. Fury is the least friendly tho for new players I think, because fury is the only one of the 3 requiring some macros to target ravager and use offensive cooldowns properly. Fury also has way higher APM than ret and BM factually. APM makes a huge difference. Ret has like half the APM of fury, so it’s ofc easier. I would actually prefer Ret gameplay-wise, because it feels more satisfying (I have a ret alt). You have to let go over this ego about complexity of specs, and which is harder, etc. That’s just useless. In the end doing damage should be something fun. The complexity should just come from really optimising the damage fully and from doing difficult content. It should never be considered hard to play any spec and perform decent enough to kill a boss on LFR without having carries in your group.
I know how to play Fury, as it’s one of my ‘‘mains’’.
I don’t have an ego about it - I said Fury was the easiest of those 3, and I play Fury and Ret - I find BM boring, so I play Survival. I’m not one who cares for complexity, and I dont necessarily find complex specs fun.
Then pick an easier way to play it within the spec’s fantasy. Sure it might perform worse but it shouldn’t perform so much worse that it’s not an option for a new or learning player.
If such an option doesn’t exist then it should as it has in the past.
I’m not talking about me. I’m a really advanced player already, who does 400k dps on some pulls in m+ (I’m not a pro, but I’m clearly not a noob). I’m talking about the noobs, because I see them a lot and I think their experience playing the game sucks. I also think that the complexity of dps rotations and the need for people to have as many buttons as possible in M+ additionally has very bad impact on the PvP scene. Those 2 things are very damaging and the game suffers due to it. Often easy dps variants don’t exist, but sometimes they do. In the case of fury warrior the easy dps variant is actually meta in pvp. If they give 2 “versions” of dps rotations in the talent tree for noob, they have to make sure it’s really very very very eady and that the damage difference is not 90% or something crazy. Still though: Just for PvP I would prefer simple straightforward damage.
You surely have extensive data to back up this conclusion. Yes? I’m guessing no.
PvP is the only viable complaint in this line of thought, i don’t want blizzard to dumb down pve and remove skill expression from it, i don’t want game design degrade to legion level of stupidity.
But i’m all for designing skill tree with noob build in mind that could be like 5-15% dps loss but still viable and easier to execute.
Then we have the whole thing with cancelaura on pulsar/starlord and so forth. Like, bro. I’d like to play balance druid from a class/spec fantasy perspective but given how it actually plays and how your DPS is worse if you don’t do this stuff, no, I don’t want to play it.
Because one is a shadow priest, a spec known for having numerous self buffs and passive going back as far as TBC, being attacked by 3 people and the other is a warrior being frostbolted by a single frost mage.
Are some of these buffs just pointless fluff that don’t really need to be seen and should be able to be hidden, yeah. Does that mean the spells that applied them should be removed? No.
You have a feral druid and rogue open a shadow priest with a resto shaman standing next to him in TBC and tell me it wouldn’t look like that.
Yeah there are definitely specific instances of mechanics having unintuitive optimisations like this that bliz should stamp out. Cancelaura shouldn’t ever be part of someone’s general rotation and balance druid has had issues with this before with starlord.
They can’t. The only thing they have is they think is easy while all being stuck in Heroic (meaning they don’t fully know how to play it which implies it’s hard for them - which is fine but a contradiction) - and also that I didn’t have enough “evidence “ as if that’s needed to a single person who’s played it.
I mean looking at just the clip, half of the things on that person are Rogue poisons, shaman hots, and buffs telling you they’re in range of their totems. DH has one spell that applies 3 different debuffs that may as well consolidate into 1, and the priest is wearing a sporecloak which just shouldn’t be a part of PvP to begin with.
he swears a lot.