That’s a pro, you can kick unprepared players and you aren’t being forced to boost somebody for the fear of losing our key.
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It’s a con if you’re an unprepared player looking for a free boost though.
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Of course it’s ridiculous - it isn’t remotely what I said.
You’d obviously fail the key, but there is an opportunity to learn after that which can then be immediately applied. You don’t have to try to remember it for the next time which occurs after 4 hours when the key comes around again. You just go “ooops, healer didn’t know what to do. Let’s head out, reset, wait 2 minutes, and go again”.
This is just literally how everything else in the game works. Someone messed up on your raid encounter? Reset and go again. Someone died in the delve? Just take the resurrection and try again. Died in the open world? 2 minutes corpserun.
Why does M+ need to be so uniquely punishing? Just stop it lol. It makes no sense.
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Maybe i misunderstood what you wrote, i read it as “it’s your job to teach the healer” which it absolutely isn’t in M+. If i had a healer with no clue in say a 10 (1st boss sv dispel) i would just replace, not teach (obviously after a reasonable amount of time in the season passed, not week 1)
I’m done with people not knowing. Still happens now. Imagine having to have the same conversation, every day you play multiple times. every week. every month.
It could get abused like puny said but tbh this solution sounds awesome
If that’s what you thought, you didn’t. While not being willing to tell what’s going wrong isn’t bannable or anything, nor should it be, I think it’s rude. He was great orherwise. If given the chance, why would you pass up an otherwise good player for such an easy to correct mistake?
It’s not just rude, it’s stupid.
Of course all this presupposes the game lets you correct it and try again, which the current game doesn’t, so yeah.
I mean unfortunately people will abuse the system either way and exploit it. You just can’t win unfortunately.
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I genuinely can’t believe people are calling the ability to try again an exploit. This is crazy. What game are you all playing?! Jesus.
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I can believe it, some people seem to play the game as an endless form of penance.
Currently there are plenty of players who stay past the expiration time. Especially in dungeons like Ara Kara and Grim Batol. Let’s be honest, the crests is an iffy reason anyways, and the score, … well, … sure, it’s there.
Wiping once rarely bricks a key below or at 10s? Even twice can be recovered from depending on the dungeon and location.
Ah, so the 99.9% of the players have to face the cons while the 0.1% has a benefit, got it.
If you’re in the 15-range or higher without a static group - something is off regardless. No?
It’s not an exploit, it can be exploited. Big difference…
How do you exploit being able to try again? By trying again with someone else?
How are raids being exploited from being able try again?
I beg you, tell me.
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I already explained. Do you enjoy repeating yourself? I’m sick of the healer community in general not knowing.
I ask about SV 1st boss and they go “yeah I know” then not do it. Or do it once then randomly dispel. I have no guarantee that they will do it properly the second time.
We have limited time on this Earth, I’m not spending it having the same conversation with players again and again. Read a guide idk.
I’ve literally burnt out from stuff like this, haven’t done keys in over a week.
Not really, no, but I do love calling out godawful reasons like this one and beating people over the head with it until they hopefully understand that what they’re doing is wrong.
If it doesn’t work I guess it doesn’t work, but at least I tried.
There’s a remedy for that: Telling healers!
Well, clearly he thought he knew but didn’t. If you had an extra chance to try again and tell him that he thought wrong, wouldn’t you take it? I mean, given he was otherwise good, I know there’s a limit to everybody’s patience.
It literally takes 2 sentences to explain this. You’re complaining about that in the context of having spent 20 minutes to find a healer in the first place then spending another 40 minutes in the dungeon in a video game, and you’re worried about having to spend 15 seconds writing out how the mechanic works?
I understand we all have limits, but this really is a trivial problem per individual healer.
If this is the so-called “exploit” it’s foolish. You harm yourself.
You know what you could have done? Instead of asking him 3 times before the run if he knew, you could’ve said what he had to do before the run prefixed by “in case you don’t know”. That wasn’t so hard, was it?
Fine. Stop then. Nobody really wants to play with your flaming leaver behaviour anyway.
Instead of one leaving a group because they can’t be bothered anymore, you can just kick the ones you consider underperforming.
This while keys are, and remain, in the very base a limited resource. You can’t just head to a dungeon, decide let’s do an 8, and go for it - as opposed to raids. So being able to get kicked freely from M+ runs causes different issues than when it comes to raids.
I don’t argue that it’s a big issue, neither do I consider leavers one. But we shouldn’t be blind for the possibilities this gives. Currently the key holder has an incentive to try to finish it as well, that will be mostly gone…the leaver issue basically shifted in favor of the keyholder.
No no no. Get rid of the whole key system. Make it like delves. I’ve wanted that for the last 8 years.
Boom, done.
If the Exploit is repeatedly kicking people for a slightly better timer at your limited key, fine. Get rid of it. Nobody likes them anyway. All they do is restrict your options in unfathomably annoying ways.
Stick to the context of the topic, perhaps? That was clear; remove depletions. No more, no less.
But removing keys all together causes whole new issues…anyways, not really relevant for this topic.
It’s still a terrible exploit though. Like, gz, you just managed to not get your key upgraded and get the chance at even more score. Wohoo?
Oh, you didn’t get the one you wanted afterwards? That’s okay, run someone else’s and reroll your key until you get the one you want again. Remember, everybody is more willing to send invites because they don’t run the risk of losing it to nothing.
Removing keys completely is still way better, but this in-between system isn’t as exploitable as you think it is.
I remember a sweet time before M+ where we even were inspected before going to dungeons and raids. Please, no, that won’t happen. People stay picky, as the content remains challenging if not done right. This is just wishful thinking…
While most people in the thread argue about this form the position of players, I think that this system, while feeling bad from the player perspective, has a function in the large scale of the community.
In a world where key depletion does not occur you have 2 main changes:
- Making a group becomes way harder, since people running their own keys becomes way more enticing (because of no failure clause).
- The average key number is greatly increased. Since there is no “pressure” in the system that reduces keys and they are just getting increased, lower keys become rarer and rarer.
So my only worry would be that such a system would almost completely wipe out lower level keys (or make them way rarer), and make group making way harder.
Again, not completely against the idea, but just pointing out some positive impact it has on the ecosystem.