And so the only alternative is what we have now which is “insert lethal disease here” and nobody is enjoying it.
That doesn’t make sense to me, low keys will still exist because nº1, you can downgrade your key if you want. And nº2 a lot of people play casually and will not be able to upgrade their key, or straight up will only join keys from someone else in X range because they aren’t comfortable going higher.
There is no positive impact, it’s horrendous, players are quitting and nobody wants to invite people who in theory could be capable of doing their key because if they fail it’s a deplete, so they only invite higher ilvl and higher rating than required to “ensure” success.
Is this really only due to the deplete? Or does the difficulty have something to do with it too? And the spell queue changes? And the vast imbalance in utility of specs? And the fact that it’s harder to carry a lower performing player? …
I agree that it’s not the cause of the leavers but I will say that I know a people who list key depletion or just key mechanics in general (for example it assigning a dungeon to you taking the choice away of what dungeon you’d like to do is one I hear a lot) as a reason they stopped doing m+ and will not return, feels like it does play a part at the very least but there is honestly no 1 reason why people might not like M+, there’s a bunch of them, so its design does put a damper on providing new blood for m+ in sense that some people only need to look at its mechanics and think oh hell no, not entirely ofcourse, but it’s less then it could be if keys just weren’t a thing at all and you could just enter a dungeon, tell it to +5 and do the +5, no keys needed and the only punishment for not completing the run is you didn’t complete the run
Yes, you will get cases where people not fit for a +2 will attempt a +20, but in my eyes thats not a problem, thats funny.
You repeat this point again in your original post but that is not true.
The reason people are not getting invited is not because they think that they are not able to do the keys. The reason people are not getting invited is because there are better options than them in the queue.
Been doing 10s from the 2nd week of the expansion. I know full well that if i am with 2-3 friends we can practically carry anyone as 4th/5th. Problem is that makes our experience worse. Even removing the key deplete would not change that fact, and it would still not change who people invite.
I do not deny that there are other problems as well, like class balance or certain dungeons favoring certain utility (like curse dispells in Grim Batol for example), but this only applies to very high keys, for the vast majority of us in the 2-12 bracket it’s irrelevant, and the main reason from a key holder to invite you is gonna be ilvl and score, because again, failure = deplete so they want to ensure victory.
If failing wasn’t so punishing people would be more willing to invite players with lower credentials.
So you’re saying that because you, ilvl 634 playing a meta class in a semi-premade, can invite whoever you want to your +10 keys which you overgear by 20 ilvls, my point is wrong? Really?
Try SV without a decurser in a random group. The players there aren’t geared optimally. They don’t use CCs optimally. They don’t interrupt optimally. Hence a decurse holds as much value in lower groups as in higher groups.
No, I am saying that key depletion is not a factor on who gets an invite or not, when the deciding factor for that is who is in the queue. You can remove key depletion tomorrow and there is 0 reason to invite someone that you would not invite today.
I’ve done this multiple times, just pop a defensive if the curse is on you and aoe blast the pull. The only thing you really need to do is kick the fear.
But that is not true, obviously if Echo players queue for your key you’re gonna invite them over some random, but that’s never gonna happen.
Again, my point is that if you have less pressure because failure isn’t that punishing, you will naturally be more flexible on who you invite. EZPZ psychology, I cannot explain it any better than that, if you don’t understand it then I’m sorry.
But fact of the matter is that in this current season completion rates are really low. And difficulty is really high.
What that means is that it dosent matter who sabotages the key. Leavers or keyholders kicking people out. The fact is that they have a point:
1 wipe and the key is bricked. With almost 100% certainty.
What that means is that the current system, with its current difficulty, makes M+ really frustrating for everyone. With or without leavers.
If you remove depletion, you at-least make it fun for a chunk of people that don’t leave keys or kick people out. And you replace leavers for nasty key holders. Which is an overall win in my eyes.
In the past I advocated for keys to have charges as a compromise. But since I see no changes, I guess I would settle for the extreme: Remove depletes.
It will have drawbacks. But IMO the advantages outweigh those drawbacks.
You can even solo the fears depending on your class, if people are bad enough to not pop defensives then they definitely won’t be good enough to dispell, so key is doomed regardless.
Me as a Warlock can solo the fear mechanic on a triple pull with kick/stun/fear/horror, if a group of 5 can’t do something as basic as kicking, popping a defensive or doing some CC then you’re doing content above of your capabilities.
doesn’t take me any time to find a healer, i could log on and join an appropriate key level with a healer within 30 seconds. But that’s besides the point.
It’s his job to know, how aren’t you getting this?
As a tank i need to know when to use drs. Should we wipe retry after retry because i don’t care enough to know? Take some personal responsibility.
"Oh sorry i didn’t know this pack had a tankbuster, lets go again i promise i’ll DR next time " lmao
That utility, specific utility, holds as much value there as in higher keys…you quite literally just agreed to this. “Just interrupt, use defensives, …”. Yeah…
Speaking of jobs, what does a good colleague do when someone doesn’t understand something?
Help them learn and grow
Instantly fire them on the first offense
I hope you didn’t answer the 2nd option.
Oooooh, I thought he just failed the boss one time and was kicked before being told what to do - but to dozens of different healers?
Was that not the case?
Uhh… yeah? Why is this a problem? He apologized for his mistake and promised to do better. It’s frustrating when this costs you your key, but if it doesn’t… ? You’d have lost 5 minutes, that’s it. That’s why I want this change.
In low keys (2-6) you can get away with not dispelling, not interrupting and not using defensives. In keys higher than those, unless overgeared, if you don’t do your thing, you die.
As keys increase in difficulty you’ll need more people to do more things and better, in a +5 you can get away with not dispelling anything on that same pull you mentioned, a good (and not overleveled) healer can outheal the damage if played correctly. In a +10 if you don’t dispell/defensive you die.
Thus, the higher the key is, the more valuable those utilities are.
Shifting the issue wont improve pugging. You’re just changing who the leaver will be. Nothing will change.
However, I’m not seeing less completion of runs, the bulk of the keys i do are weeklies so 10+. I’m not finding there are more leavers than any other season. But even if over time I will stick with a pug to the end.
Even in +10s you notice that you can make more mistakes, or handle things imperfect, as with more gear you gain a lot more HP. That HP buffer is not present in lower keys as people aren’t as geared, on average.
610s may have 5M hp, 620s close to 6M. That 1M gap is huge, of course people take the higher ilvl one. It has zero to do with depletions, all with the ability to make more mistakes. And we make mistakes, we all do. It’s just very unforgiving content => people get picky.
Warlock can solo the fear mechanic on a triple pull with kick/stun/fear/horror, if a group of 5 can’t do something as basic as kicking, popping a defensive or doing some CC then you’re doing content above of your capabilities.