Exactly!! So if we make the content less punishing, people will be less picky, right? That’s the whole point.
M+ isn’t where you learn and it isn’t my job to teach anyone anything. You get paid to do a job, so teaching is fine, i have to actually pay to do this and random pugs aren’t my colleagues. If i had a group ( have before) we chat stuff out, sure great. These people are my “colleagues” and i don’t have to repeat it 100 times
we were talking about hypothetical retries. In this season every healer besides a handful had no clue. If we could retry i would kick and go again.
Which is fine, i don’t pay your sub you can do whatever you want and have whatever intentions you wish. But i won’t be doing that. Imagine rocking up in a high key and be like “uhh sorry guys i don’t know the route or %”
it’s so ridiculous how entitled your average player is. You should know all mechanics, what spells to interrupt, what to cc, what to soothe, frontals, dispels, purges. In 10+
Where else are you supposed to learn hard dungeons?
You are unbelievable. I give up. The fact that M+ has bred people with your attitude is exactly what’s wrong with it.
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But it has little to do with the key? It may be part of the entire equation, but overall, the actual content dictates the pickiness.
Then again we enter the discussion of high and low keys, in a +12 or higher where everyone is near max ilvl, yes you need to be somewhat picky about the class/spec because good use of your utility is important, but in lower keys although good, it’s nowhere near mandatory.
But even in higher keys, if the punishment wasn’t a deplete, people still would be more willing to invite offmeta and try new things out, rather than stick to the same 5 specs in every key and pray for mistakes to not happen.
I guess we’re never gonna agree on this, our experiences and approach towards lower keys is too different.
Oh I will agree that the depletion system is suboptimal. I just am not convinced it’s the main factor. I have argued before, in other topics, that perhaps adding charges to a key will be a step in the right direction. Having more chances to redo it, but not endlessly.
But removing depletions overall isn’t too far off. And I a not completely against either.
What I am convinced about is that much more has to happen to improve the situation for 99.9% of the players 
I already said before what i would do , +2-+5 should be hard but untimed. You can teach and learn there, chat. Relax. Move the difficulty curve so that +15 = +10 now.
People learn in +2 - +5
Blizzard pretended that m0 is like old +2-+10 which is an absolute joke. We need keys without timers that are hard enough that you HAVE to learn. It’s as simple a fix as that. so when people push in to reward cap territory they know.
The problem is the rewards for low dungeons suck and delves have made them pointless.
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Correct.
But we would get less homework keys overall. For any key-level you do. So in my eyes, for the same “drawback” (leavers or kickers) we get more advantages.
So do I. But compared to other seasons, you have to do this more often. Because by “completion rates” I was referring to timing keys.
This is a limit you set arbitrarily, just as Blizzard did. There are plenty of things you won’t lessen in a lower key you must learn in a higher one. Doesn’t really matter where you set the limit. This is just true, universally.
What does matter about it is that there are as lot of people who like hard dungeons but hate timers, and times are ruining their day, so I’m not against your idea. I just don’t want you to get your hopes up that this will solve your particular problem.
Key’s need to be gone, not just depletion.
Entering a mythic+ should work like entering a delve, you get a dialog and choose the key level, with levels more than 1 above your (or in the event of a mixed completion level group, the group leader’s) highest completed for that dungeon, locked out.
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It’s hard to say for sure, but other systems must be tried
Anything above a seven one wipe is basically a deplete cos of the bs affix
Nuh, only dungeon that’s really tight is GB. In the other dungeons there is some time if you wipe, even above 7…unless the DPS is absolutely crap.
One full wipe brings you basically back to the old timer of the dungeon. If that is impossible, then it’s a DPS issue.
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Removing Key depletion will only change the number of possible leavers to 5 from 4 (but I do agree, we do not need key depletion)
If You want no leavers, then You shouldn’t punish players for wasting their time. Wasting time is enough punishment, if You can still finish the dungeon You should get the same rewards (items + crests) , but obviously less or zero rating.
In most keys, 10 deaths is the point where it’s untimable with the Affix, it might be lower if the DPS is bad.
Possibly thinking of the old timer. They changed it few weeks ago toa bit higher for peril keys right? I got curve end of October think I’ve done like 1 key since then
Yeah, they added 90 seconds to keys with the Peril affix.
I have seen the Delve system suggestion before. The leader highest completion would certainly remove the concerns I’d have about groups members being at different levels etc.