Thats not happening. Thats more than wishful thinking.
Nobody is carring some no name person with no score and no ilvl at a +20 key.
I dont care either to be honest. But it has to do with my opinions from earlyer:
If enough people are stupid enough to play like that, it will make the LFG environment even worse than what it is now.
You wont know if you join a +XX if the person wants a rush/boost or if he legit wants to put in the effort to time it.
And im OK with some people doing that (which they currently do). But I do beleive that enough people will be dishonest about it to cause a general problem.
At a minimum removing depleates encourages that behaviour, instead of discouraging it. Thats my opinion.
1 Like
This already happens. Ilvl is a stupid metric to begin with. By now everyone has max ilvl.
However, currently an idividual like that has like… dunno… 10 keys done at a +20. Because he might manage to do it ONCE a week, but not consistently. So his key gets depleated consistently to sub +20.
However if you never depleate keys, all I would see is a person that has completed every dungeon on +20 multiple times, posting his +20 key. What I dont know is how many hours spaming keys hoping for the “carry” group he spent.
I mean… people ALREADY do that. That is why when you look for LFG groups (especially in the +18 to +20 range for max vault) people deliberatelly ONLY invite people with siginficantly higher RIO than what it would be expected to have.
I have experienced this myself. Multiple times.
Hopefully, its not the “norm” to do things like that. But with out depleates, it would be dumb not to behave like that. Encouraging even more that nasty behaviour.
I fail to see how you yourself cant see it. Maybe you have been doing your own keys for so long that you forgot what its like to do someone elses key. Or maybe you are lucky enough to run a full 5 man premade, and did not have to witness the humanity of PuG people applying to your key.
So I dont get where all this hopium comes from. 
If there is a way to cheat the system, people will cheat the system. Simple as that.
We’ve actually done this before. Four of us were looking for a fun key for the vault and didn’t want to do any of our own, so we found a lone dps with the key we wanted and literally carried them to a +2.
Sorry Uda but you are not really giving a solid argument.
You are saying by some weird and obscure reason which may or may not happen once a week 4 people with solid score + gear will carry a guy with no ilvl and no score (that bought a +20 boost) and this is the reason (It eventually boiled down to this) you don’t want it implemented.
You want to die on this hill? Be my guest but its a very sloppy hill imo.
Thats all from me, cheers.
I’m not going to say that there are no downsides and possible issues with no depleto. I do think that the benefits outweigh the downsides and that the community will find a way to deal with them.
That said, they can always experiment with different setups:
- 3 charges max
- maybe with the ability to recharge it by completing other keys of the same or higher level
- have to manually lower the key -1 level to recharge to 3 charges again
- new key = + level it had and back to 3 charges
- infinite charges, but requires you to lock in with a group of 5. If even 1 player changes, the key can’t be used anymore and has to be lowered first
- could have a variation of this where you lock it to 3 or 4 players max, being able to replace 1 or 2 players because of reasons
- have infinite charges if the key level is a max of +3 above your average key level. Say you have all +20, you can retry infinitely up to +23, after that it depletes back to +23
- If you have all tyrannical keys at +20 and no fortified keys done at all, you could only keep it up to +13 and anything above that you fail is -1 level
- no more key restriction, you can have as many as you want, but you can sacrifice other key of the same level to increase another key +1 level. Say you have a WM +20 and a BRH +20, you could use the +20 WM to make it +21. Completing 1 key of someone else would grant you 1 new key of the same level as the key that was originally used
- inserting a +20 key, making it +3, would give everyone a +20 key
- probably needs a restriction of having a max upgrade of +3 or something based on your average key level
I’m not saying any of those ideas are perfect, just sprouting some ideas that “no deplete” can be a better system with some minor tweaks.
Here is the key. So TODAY. With depletes:
Why do people not have IO score? Because they cant time their keys and the key gets depleted.
Why do people not have ilvl? Because they cant time their keys and the key gets depleted.
Essentially, TODAY: Even if people get lucky or pay for a boost, they cant MAINTAIN that key level for very long on their own. Depleting the key will drag them back to the level they belong in. Lets call that, +15.
SO, recap so you get it:
If keys deplete:
1 guy pays for a +20 boost. Then, he posts his +20 key and gets depleted to a +19. Tries again, depleted to a +18. Again… +17 and again +16 then +15. Then he times it. And he stays at +15 (± 1 key level like you are).
TLDR: Rewards skill. Wanna go further than +15? Then L2P basically.
Situation in LFG: You will SOMETIMES have players with keys higher than their skill level, but not many. Most of people will sit on the key level they deserve to be.
If keys don’t deplete:
1 guy pays for a +20 boost. Then, he posts his +20 key. He does not even finish it. Still +20. Posts the +20 again. Does not finish it. Posts the +20 it ONCE AGAIN… and again, and again, and again. Until you get lucky and time it. Repeat process with 21.
TLDR: Rewards people that have the most time to spam keys. Regardless of skill.
Situation in LFG: LFG will be FULL of people with keys above their skill.
You see it now?
This already happens !!! I do it myself FFS. I want to have my 8 vault keys, so I go with 2-3 buddies to a +20 and we literally carry the group and 3 chest any M+ with 15 minutes to spare.
Also, I form part of a boosting community and people pay me gold to rush them 17s. And I know people with which I play often that payed for the Brutosaurus in BFA, and the new 2M G mounts with boosting 17s. And im not exaggerating.
And the only reason that business exists in the first place is because people only have 1 shot at timing that +17 key they have (or else it gets depleted). And they wont get so lucky as to find the carry group in 1 attempt. But with out depletes, you can spam and try your luck all day if you want.
I lost faith in humanity for a reason you know !
1 Like
I’ll just quote myself, seeing as you chose to ignore my response saying we’ve actually done this:
Since you don’t want a deplete, it won’t be -1. Also, if you have ever done a single M+, you would know that you get score for failed runs, quite a bit too. A +18 that failed 10 seconds will give far more score than a +16 which was timed at 2 chest.
Where did the 2 hours come from? Do you think weekly keys take 14 hours to complete each? What makes them take 21 hours long per key?
My problem is that you are not getting punished for failing, but you still get reward. I would agree to no deplete, if you are taking away the reward.
Reward? Then also Punishment. No Punishment? Then also no Reward.
Fine, your key will not deplete. But you will not get score, item and vault slot at the end. I am fine with the few crests you are getting for a failed key though.
The key you get next week depends on whether or not your highest key was timed. If you time a +17, next week you have a +17. If you finish a +17 without timing it, you get a +16. This system isn’t related to depleting your key, it’s your next starting point. Imo this is fine as it is right now.
If you’ve done a single key above +20 then you’d know that failing a key practically gives no score at all. Below +20 the score is irrelevant.
The argument that people will “wait for BL for every pull” and “kill packs 1 by 1 and CC every other mob”. Not my argument, that’s what people say (and did say about things like Torghast time score).
What reward exactly? M+ only gives you some gear up to heroic track, if you’re lucky it even drops. The rewards are less if you don’t time a key, and this is isn’t something that should change.
There shouldn’t be a punishment for failing something, we’re playing a game.
Nah this is a hard no. The current time/untime rewards are okay, with the exception being that they should increase the amount of gold at the end to match the minimum of a full solo dungeon clear on normal where you’d vendor all items you loot.
Are you arguing against me or for me?
So you do this even though there is key depletion. Meaning the guy can get lucky either way?
What are you trying to argue for here?
I’m disputing your claim that no-one would do that.
This is directly related to your argument about depletion. Either way, it is going to stay the same way as key depletion.
That just sounds like an opinion to me.
Yeah, but that wasn’t my argument. If you think that people wouldn’t spam 17-20, while taking an extra 20-30 minutes to complete the dungeons, then you are a total fool. Not one person would run any dung between 11 and 17, unless they have level capped the same minute.
The only thing is less is the crests. Heroic track rewards cap out 6 ilvls lower than Mythic track rewards. Only makes any difference for hardcore players.
“There shouldn’t be a reward for succeeding in something, we’re playing a game.”
Well, it is a hard no to this thread’s entire suggestion. Haven’t seen a single sane argument on how could this be fairly implemented.
So you don’t actually have any arguments? okay then.
Such an intelligent response.
His points rebutted yours pretty well.
I mean your points were stuff like “score below an arbitrary number that I’ve determined doesn’t matter!”
Well it does to a lot of people, you still see ppl on the forums pleased that they reached ksm or ksh even though its totally trivial to you or me.
So with this in mind, its actually you that don’t have any arguments.
1 Like
They didn’t though 
I literally linked one of your points and how it made no sense and then expanded on why.
You’re just making stuff up and pretending its fact because you said it.
I would make item which cost Flightstones and allows keystone you took participation in to NOT be depleted. That way there is an use for surplus Flightstones and it couldn’t be abused because you’d still have to farm stones which takes time. I’m at +25 level right now and it hurts failing key after few minutes - it completely takes off my will to play more and keeps me doing only 20 for friends.
I have already given all my arguments. You have dismissed them. Which was always allowed. I also addressed and dismissed your arguments, so I guess things will stay the way they are.