I would do the same thing (probably), but here we arguing about the fact that kicking somebody for wanting to do a boss is not toxic at all and on top of that it’s faster to get a replacement and wait for them. Kicking people with 0 personal benefit for wanting to play the game is epitome of toxicity for me. I would kill that boss for them and moved on or do what you did and just finish the dungeon without them. I would only kick them for hostility without provocation. Being spiteful to people to save 1-2 minutes of play to me is ridiculous.
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Or just clear and pull the boss, ignoring the group.
If you argue, then there’s chance of kick, if you just clear and kill the boss, they suck it up.
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If you’re not a tank then ninja pulling the boss won’t really help your case I think.
Saw this happen a few days ago also. Next time pull the boss quick. Should only be a 15 min debuff instead of 30.
I am just going to hope blizzard makes some updates to the dungeon which really demotivates the speedrunning trent like putting a barrier at every boss is one of the ideas I heard someone say in another thread or removing the random dungeon bonus xp. Because i never comply with speedrunners i make sure they dont have their way…
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As i’ve said in other threads on this very subject.
This is a good example of majority simpling making a behaviour agreed-upon, but that doesn’t mean that it’s necessarily logical or “therefore, the right thing to do”.
At the end of the day, even taking 5 minutes to kill both bosses, for those that all want to skip, adds up to 20 minutes collectively (and 5 individually) versus the single player that, if kicked, gets 30 minutes of that enforced upon them as a single individual.
I’m sorry, but I don’t understand how anyone can think that making one person bear a “large punishment” rather than the group sharing an at-best, minor inconvinenice as opposed to just helping another player out in a game that is supposed to be based around social interaction is the RIGHT thing to do.
It is the AGREED upon thing to do in many groups, but this doesn’t make it correct or right or anything other than each of the agreed players being selfish (and prioritising their individual needs highly enoguh they would rather punish a single player largely than bear a small issue themselves).
That is simply a consensus of being selfish - it doesn’t make it any less selfish however.
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You earned that kick. Next time don’t waste people’s time with “oh, I need gear from x boss” bs.
If you need boss for item,there’s really no need,because you can rush trough the content in lvl 50 rare gear you buy off ah for 10 k gold.
You get items in other dungs anyway.
At this point in patch,people just want to rush trough everything.
In this case (even tho i understand you) you are the one who was selfish and not being considerate of 4 other players in your group.
Just look at it this way : You wanted 4 other players to help you with the boss,but you didnt want to help them rush trough the dung.
Both parties are wrong in your case,but you gotta go with the majority.
you disgust me, you are what is wrong with the game in one summery. Cant believe you havent been permanently banned yet, Im so sick of ppl like you who are constantly allowed to harash and be mean to ppl who just want to have fun and do entire run. It should be reportable. I was kicked myself and called an afk retard just yesterday for not pulling the second I entered a dungeon and then 2 dps just pulled and played tanks. In normal dungeons you are there to practice and have fun. If you want to skip and rush as fast as posible, solo it or premade. You truly disgust me with your behavior and attitude and Blizzard have to do something about this, its been going on for a decade now, enough if enough.
I personally cant understand why you are allowed to be an mvp. Your way of thinking and replying is toxic and harmful in itself and also a little rude to the ppl that want to have fun and do the dungeon as was intended, without speeding and skipping. If YOU want to rush, make a premade, or solo it. Some ppl are here to learn and just have fun and see the whole dungeon. You disgust me tbh, Im so sick of ppl with this way of thinking, now even the staff of Blizzard supports kicking and belittling ppl that want to xperience a dungeon without running a race.
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Remember if you have the quest the difference between doing plaguefall with or without the 2 bosses is 6% vs 16-18%.
So the time you save by not doing the bosses goes up in the loss of the quest completion that is worth 1/4 of the level.
The real time loss of doing those bosses is not more then 2-3min per dungeon.
Not 5min.
Do you genuinely think that one person asking everyone in the group (themselves included) to pay a price of 4-5 extra minutes, for a reason they benefit from, is honestly being more selfish than other players instead asking that player to pay a bigger individual price than they would have to have had otherwise, whilst getting no benefit from that, simply by virtue of being the majority?
I’m sorry, but I can’t look at any situation where players (despite them agreeing) being unable to take 4 minutes or so extra, which doesn’t outright stop their “goal” of gaining exp/hour - and would instead prefer another player to stomach a 30 minute inactivity penalty, which outright prevents them from obtaining their goal OR do the entire run with them, and then have to ReQ and hope the next group allows them to do it.
This is a freaking MMORPG - when did the idea of “doing other players a solid” take a back seat to the idea of “but I need to min/max my own exp gains and sod everyone else - it’s fine because others share this view, therefore it’s cool.”
Goodness me. I mean by all means do it, kick the dissenters. I won’t protest a skip group myself, but those doing it, do not under any circumstances think you are in any way, shape or form being less selfish than the individual you’ve just slapped with a 30 minute penalty because you (and your fellows) couldn’t stomach the idea of taking 3-4 additional minutes each (the one you kicked included).
That borders on complete cognitive dissonance to me.
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Looking at the way you reply to people with just a different oppinion, you seem to be the entitled toxic person here.
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It’s actually 6% versus 10%. I’ve done it enoguh times to check.
Notwithstanding though, I don’t see the furore over people wanting to do full runs.
The thing that irritates me about it is those whom like to skip feel this weird need to lambast the dissenter as “selfish” and try to reframe their own actions as somehow being decent.
If they were self-aware enough to recognise that it’s simply a case of them prioritising their own needs over the dissenter, no problem, but no, they try to paint it as some kind of “best form of behaviour in this case”.
This is a social game, we shouldn’t be labelling helping a fellow party member for a few minutes in a dungeon as SELFISH because it interrupts your exp/hour rate simply because you and those strangers you’re grouped with all agree that you care about your exp/hour rate the most. It’s utterly bizarre.
That’s another thing that’s laughable, where people allude to the idea of some form of “democratic spirit” within the party that legitimises it and makes it kosher.
Do people honestly feel some genuine sense of democratic camaradery with these people they probably didn’t even know existed until 2 minutes ago? Come off it. Your agreement in 90% of cases is purely coincidental and discovered only upon the moment of “the skip decision” so treating it like it’s some stranger “ruining your agreed upon utopia of the group” is just being completely ridiculous. Until you get to that point in PF you had NO IDEA how many of the group agreed with your stance on skipping or not.
Even if it is a burden, even if that point is argued. Why not do it? This is an MMORPG for christ’s sake. When did the idea of others “Not being worth our time or attention” for even a few poxy minutes become such a mainstream view in this game? Smh
People complain about damn zoom zoom zoomers in their pugs and people whom lack any awareness of others or stuff beyond their DPS meter for example and then in this situation are basically arguing that the people who wants others to think of their needs is WRONG because they and the others in the group whom are thinking of themselves principally all agree to do that. Freaking coincidence? I think not.
Similarly you also have people arguing that “majority = the win” and yet I spy several posters whom have argued in others threads about how they have absolutely no qualms in leaving a key group, even if everyone else wants to continue, if they personally think it’s a waste of their time. Where’s the freaking majority wins in that situation huh? How come it’s totally okay to screw that entire group in that situation because you decide to hop on out, yet in this skipping situation, whatever the group wants, the 5th must obey?
I’ll tell you why, because it’s nothing to do with majorities or democracies, these are just veils draped in front of people basically only being interested in their preferences and theirs alone and trying to disguise this fact and sell it as some form of “being socially minded” which is hilarious.
On 3 different chars I always got 16% or more if we killed those 2 bosses ALWAYS.
So if that is the case I wonder how I got 16 if you are supposed to get 10
Well, the skipping is the reason why you never fill the maldraxus bar before hitting 60. Which is more inefficient to me, since it provides quite a good amount of XP (and renown and time for filling the bar on a later moment).
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Total agree.
People argue “well i’ve never filled it before 60 anyway”
COmpletely ignorant to the fact that in skipping every PF, they massively stunt the growth of the bar in the first place.
Either way my arguments against it aren’t about whether full runs are more efficient or not, but rather this being a social game, we shouldn’t be trying to paint a social act (helping a party member) as some kind of villainous deed whilst pretending that our own pursuit of self-interest (which is coincidentially a position shared by a majority in the group) is somehow a truly social way to play.
In these groups with the skip mindset where 4 agree. Do people honestly find that randommagejoe cares one iota about zugzugarmsdps’s exp/hour? Of course he doesn’t. He didn’t even know he existed until one minute ago. This is simply a situation where everyone is “out for themselves” and they all coincidentially agree on that point, and then try and pretend “therefore we’re not being selfish, because we’re all agreeing to pursue self-interest”.
Like, what??! That’s not how it works at all.
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Problem is, it’s dungeon finder.
So you don’t have the power to find people who want to do it, or somesuch.
Meaning, optional bosses in simple five man dungeons are stupid design.
The most straightforward solution - available since Classic, I mean 2004 - is that a boss pulls every (major) creature that precedes them. (Scarlet Monastery)
Sure, there are megadungeons where people skip, but you know, what’s funny? In Classic, people actually do all the optional bosses for xp and drops.
Maraudon? Rotgrip and the goblin, only skipped by people who don’t know them. Heck, most people even do purple, orange and final all together.
BRD? Be ready for 3 hours in one sit, all the bosses, all the time. One time I asked the group whether they want to skip for Upper, answer was no. (Can make a group for Upper - from the get go.)
Thus, while I respect the drive for efficiency, I totally don’t understand how anyone could skip some fun in favor of +1 gold/hour in a 20 minute dungeon. It’s almost like people aren’t in it for the adventure, but something else.
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Just to point out. HC PF is often used as a renown farming dungeon. Since renown drops from last bosses only. People just run straight for the last 2 bosses. Kill them. Get potentialy renown. So its 1 renown(potentialy) per 5 mins.
I was also farming PF on my main when switched covenants. These last couple of days of my pf spam - 10 HC PFs
7 - the group said at the start that they are renown farming and if I dont like it. I can leave.
2 - got to the first boss then stared haha. Wasn’t sure if they want to skip or do it. I started to run around and immediately everyone followed and we skipped. Guess they need a “push”
1 - wanted to clear everything.
How many times are you going to repeat this topic. Get over it , it is LFD just re-que as tank and get instant dungeon.
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