Kul Tirans can't be Mages even though their leader, Lord Admiral Jaina Proudmoore, is the most powerful Human sorceress alive. #Logic
You would think that, since Kul Tiras is one of the busiest and most popular trade hubs in the world (so lots of cultures and traditions interact and intermingle there), and Kul Tirans descend from the Gilneans (who can be Mages), that they would have some knowledge of Magic, albeit rudimentary or lacking compared to "older" (NOT WISER OR SMARTER) races like Draenei and Elves.
Apparently, Pandaren Mages (I have literally never seen a Pandaren Mage NPC in the game) and Mag'har Mages (who were never allies of Undead/Blood Elves, so I don't know how they learnt Magic in the first place...) make much more sense than Kul Tiran Mages.
02/11/2018 21:20Posted by ArcturKul Tirans can't be Mages even though their leader, Lord Admiral Jaina Proudmoore, is the most powerful Human sorceress alive.
Ah yes, I recall Jaina Proudmoore being trained in the established magical academies of Kul Tiras, where she learned how to wield the arcane thanks to the knowledge of her own people.
Wait, that's an alternate universe. In this one, Jaina Proudmoore was sent to Dalaran when she voiced her interests in studying magic, which might indicate that Kul Tiras lacked any institution dedicated to the arcane. Similarly, Battle for Azeroth reveals that there's no place of learning for magical research, only the holy places of the Tide Sages, where they practice magic of a more natural and less abstract variety.
Pandaren probably learned from the Highborne before they distanced themselves from the Kaldorei Empire. Mag'har canonically learned from Ogre magi, who in turn gained their knowledge from relics of Aggramar.
Tbh, I think Kul'Tirans should have Mages, instead of Shaman.
But hey, I don't write the story or dev the game.
But hey, I don't write the story or dev the game.
02/11/2018 21:49Posted by Taxania02/11/2018 21:20Posted by ArcturKul Tirans can't be Mages even though their leader, Lord Admiral Jaina Proudmoore, is the most powerful Human sorceress alive.
Ah yes, I recall Jaina Proudmoore being trained in the established magical academies of Kul Tiras, where she learned how to wield the arcane thanks to the knowledge of her own people.
Wait, that's an alternate universe. In this one, Jaina Proudmoore was sent to Dalaran when she voiced her interests in studying magic, which might indicate that Kul Tiras lacked any institution dedicated to the arcane. Similarly, Battle for Azeroth reveals that there's no place of learning for magical research, only the holy places of the Tide Sages, where they practice magic of a more natural and less abstract variety.
Pandaren probably learned from the Highborne before they distanced themselves from the Kaldorei Empire. Mag'har canonically learned from Ogre magi, who in turn gained their knowledge from relics of Aggramar.
Did you see any academy of magic in Lordaeron or Gilneas? No? Thought so. So why can Gilnean and Forsaken be Mages?
Furthermore, What I do see are many Tidesages summoning Water Elementals to do their bidding. Don't Frost Mages revolve around summoning Water Elementals to do their bidding?
Lastly, your point about Pandaren Mages is moot since it's headcanon. Otherwise, I may very well say that centuries of trade with Dalaranian merchants (Kul Tiras being one of the main trade nations in the world) led to Kul Tirans interacting with Magic from said traders.
02/11/2018 21:53Posted by ArcturDid you see any academy of magic in Lordaeron or Gilneas? No? Thought so. So why can Gilnean and Forsaken be Mages?
How close are Gilneas and Lordaeron to Dalaran? Not far at all. Much closer than Kul Tiras is to a landlocked city-state, at least. It was much easier for someone from Gilneas to go and study at Dalaran and then come back a proficient mage than it was for someone from Kul Tiras to give Dalaran a visit.
02/11/2018 22:03Posted by Taxania02/11/2018 21:53Posted by ArcturDid you see any academy of magic in Lordaeron or Gilneas? No? Thought so. So why can Gilnean and Forsaken be Mages?
How close are Gilneas and Lordaeron to Dalaran? Not far at all. Much closer than Kul Tiras is to a landlocked city-state, at least. It was much easier for someone from Gilneas to go and study at Dalaran and then come back a proficient mage than it was for someone from Kul Tiras to give Dalaran a visit.
Kul Tirans are the best sailors you will find in the Eastern Kingdoms, don't act like it would be such a long or hard journey to get from Boralus to Dalaran. The very idea that only Dalaran can you learn magic is moot, since Stormwind and Stromgarde both had Mage towers, as in places where Magic is practiced and learned.
Furthermore, as I already said, many Tidesages are seen commanding Water Elementals, which is a notorious gimmick of Frost Mages.
Lastly, from a simple logical perspective, it's irritating to see a Kul Tiran Mage on a loading screen when you can't be one.
Finally, it doesn't really take a genius to figure out how Kul Tiran Mages could have worked. Boralus has been a major port city, a trade hub, for 2.700 years. In two thousand years, not a single Dalaranian ever travelled to the city to estabilish a school, even a small one, from which to train a generation of Kul Tiran Mages?
In this universe, the entire world is basically the egg of a Titan, mind you. I'd say that Kul Tiran Mages are far from being an atrocity of the lore, or even illogical to begin with. In particular, what caught my eye is the sigil of House Stormsong: An ominous eye, very reminiscent of the Kirin Tor sigil.
Weather or not Kul Tirans can be mages or not is not in question here. Literally any race can be any class with only a few exceptions.
The reason Kul Tirans don't have mage as a class is because it's not an influential part of their culture. You may be lead to believe that the Tidesages are magi, but that is not the case. Tidesages are shamans. Like, it's literally in their name. Tidesage.
Is sage a word you would use to describe a mage? Of course not. Tidesages are sea worshippers, and therefore shamans.
Kul Tirans have nothing to do with Arcane. Jaina was a special case.
The reason Kul Tirans don't have mage as a class is because it's not an influential part of their culture. You may be lead to believe that the Tidesages are magi, but that is not the case. Tidesages are shamans. Like, it's literally in their name. Tidesage.
Is sage a word you would use to describe a mage? Of course not. Tidesages are sea worshippers, and therefore shamans.
Kul Tirans have nothing to do with Arcane. Jaina was a special case.
02/11/2018 22:21Posted by BlanesThe reason Kul Tirans don't have mage as a class is because it's not an influential part of their culture.
And Monk is not an influential part of the Sin'dorei culture, so why are Blood Elves Monks available?
02/11/2018 22:21Posted by BlanesYou may be lead to believe that the Tidesages are magi, but that is not the case. Tidesages are shamans. Like, it's literally in their name. Tidesage.
Is sage a word you would use to describe a mage? Of course not. Tidesages are sea worshippers, and therefore shamans.
And yet many Tidesages are seen summoning Water Elementals, a skill notorious of being part of the Frost Mage archetype.
Also, "Sage" was a term used to describe Truthbearer, who was a Human Paladin defending King Terenas' urn in Warcraft III. So... Why are there no Kul Tiran Paladins?
02/11/2018 22:21Posted by BlanesKul Tirans have nothing to do with Arcane.
And Mages don't necessarily have to revolve around the Arcane.
Even the Zandalari have nothing to do with the Path of the Monk, Zandalari and Panadaren are actually hated rivals, yet Zandaren Monks are playable, despite the total lack of any Monk "school" (or trainer, at the very least).
02/11/2018 22:21Posted by BlanesJaina was a special case.
As was Alleria, they still pulled a race of Mary Sues like her out of nowhere.
02/11/2018 22:21Posted by BlanesIs sage a word you would use to describe a mage?
It could depend on which race the individual comes from.
The Draenei for instance - had the Council of Exarchs, which were regarded as a council of sages and they were a mix of Paladins, Magi and Rangari.
The Pandaren have sages that appear to be like lorekeepers and storytellers.
The first Highborne Night Elves to have studied the Well of Eternity were considered sages/priests
The term "sage" in an Azerothian setting is extremely broad because it's term can vary from race to race.
Barring these "Tidesages" there is not a lot to go on with regards to Human Sages.
Before the Highborne came to power, the Kaldorei had Sages and Priests/Priestessess researching the Well of Eternity...
I suppose "sage" is just another word for wise person, to be fair.
I suppose "sage" is just another word for wise person, to be fair.
And Monk is not an influential part of the Sin'dorei culture, so why are Blood Elves Monks available?
Because Monks were a new class at the time, and with new classes Blizzard has the freedom of stapling it on any race they deem sensical. Mage isn't a new class, as such the race needs to have an at least vague history for it.
And yet many Tidesages are seen summoning Water Elementals, a skill notorious of being part of the Frost Mage archetype.
That is incorrect. Mages can't summon any elemental. They are Conjurers, so they literally create them. Nonetheless, both of these classes have the access to the help of the elementals, each in their own way.
And Mages don't necessarily have to revolve around the Arcane.
Yes they do. The Arcane, Fire, Frost thing was scrapped with Chronicles. All mage magic is Arcane magic.
As was Alleria, they still pulled a race of Mary Sues like her out of nowhere.
I assume you're suggesting them to pull a similar plot with the Kul Tirans, but I don't think Blizzard considers Kul Tiran mages a big enough priority to bother with such an idea.
02/11/2018 22:44Posted by BlanesBecause Monks were a new class at the time, and with new classes Blizzard has the freedom of stapling it on any race they deem sensical.
Monks were a new class when Mag'har Orcs or Dark Iron Dwarves were released?
02/11/2018 22:44Posted by BlanesThat is incorrect. Mages can't summon any elemental. They are Conjurers, so they literally create them. Nonetheless, both of these classes have the access to the help of the elementals, each in their own way.
It still doesn't change my point that Water Elementals are commonly associated with Frost Mages. Also, Frost Mages use ice, and you cannot have ice without water.
02/11/2018 22:44Posted by BlanesYes they do. The Arcane, Fire, Frost thing was scrapped with Chronicles. All mage magic is Arcane magic.
Then how do you explain the existence of Hydromancers?
https://wow.gamepedia.com/Hydromancer
Hydromancers, also known as AcquaMAGES, and there are Kul Tiran Hydromancers.
02/11/2018 22:44Posted by BlanesI assume you're suggesting them to pull a similar plot with the Kul Tirans, but I don't think Blizzard considers Kul Tiran mages a big enough priority to bother with such an idea.
Except that Kul Tiran Mages wouldn't be an asspull, as I already explained above, and I am not going to repeat myself.
Then how do you explain the existence of Hydromancers?
https://wow.gamepedia.com/Hydromancer
Hydromancers, also known as AcquaMAGES, and there are Kul Tiran Hydromancers.
Yeah, I do agree with you there. Hydromancers are very much a thing. My best guess would be that Blizzard either forgot that they existed or just scrapped them to replace them with sea shamans. I'm not really fond of the concept either myself, really.
By the way, one of the bosses in the next patch is a Kul Tiran Fire Mage named "Manceroy Flamefist"... Just saying.
03/11/2018 00:20Posted by ArcturBy the way, one of the bosses in the next patch is a Kul Tiran Fire Mage named "Manceroy Flamefist"... Just saying.
Another rare example of a Dalaran-trained Kul Tiran, of course.
03/11/2018 00:22Posted by Taxania03/11/2018 00:20Posted by ArcturBy the way, one of the bosses in the next patch is a Kul Tiran Fire Mage named "Manceroy Flamefist"... Just saying.
Another rare example of a Dalaran-trained Kul Tiran, of course.
Ah, Yes, another rare example of that. Of course.
Meanwhile, I have yet to see a Dark Iron Dwarf Monk in the lore.
It's certainly weird, but I don't really care.
The less mages, the better.
The less mages, the better.
Why no Kul Tiran Paladins?
Kul Tiras worships the Holy Light. Also Worgen Paladins please.
Kul Tiras worships the Holy Light. Also Worgen Paladins please.
03/11/2018 00:24Posted by ArcturAh, Yes, another rare example of that. Of course.
Meanwhile, I have yet to see a Dark Iron Dwarf Monk in the lore.
Behold, a Dark Iron Dwarf Brewmaster Monk, from 1.0 no less.
https://i.imgur.com/93tF1QM.jpg
Considering Daelin himself chose to employ Thalassian high elves mages and priests during the Third War for his expedition against the Horde, it is indeed not a big stretch to think that the Kul Tiran mages all hail from Dalaran (or were trained there) as well. And therefore are to be considered Dalarani rather than Kul'Tiran...like Jaina herself, actually.