People leaving mythic+ instances instead of finishing etc. Not getting any deserter or punishments about this, it feels like punishing the rest of the group.
Its not about play better attitude do it intime attitude. Its just we had to disband 2 groups on last boss of mythic+ keystone because they decided its not going intime for 2-3min. And those contents arent doable while 1 tank or 1 healer is missing.
But due to 1 persons attitude is wasting 4 players time is really annoying. I might get that not getting points/ratings from those dungeons understandable but. Not finishing / not getting loot-currencies from those its not okay, while leaver isn’t getting any punishment.
I might be okay about not wasting 40min after timers end thats understandable aswell. We might get a forfeit vote system for those content and add punishment systems for leavers maybe.
You made the group manually, yes it sucks that people leave. Pick better people is the short version. And getting to know better people is a process, there is no magic bullet. The downside of the convenience the current system offers is that occasionally you’ll have people who leave.
You’re right aswell, but one person can join 20-25 group per day and leave those even if you inform them aswell. And they might ruin gaming experience of 100 person per day without getting any flags or etc. So they keep going with it because they in knowledge of not happening anything to them.
The leaver also wasted their time and doesn’t get loot.
The thing is, some of the people who pug a lot are mindful of how many over-time runs they have logged on their Raider IO profile. If your profile shows quite a few over-time runs, they feel their chances of getting invited to “better” groups is reduced. A friend of mine feels rather strongly about this, for example.
I personally don’t care about that and wouldn’t leave 2-3 minutes before the end. I generally almost never leave, but sometimes I think that is a mistake. If I can tell after 5-15 minutes that I’ll most likely end up with 5 crests after another 20-40 minutes, it would be better if I left, because it’s really not fun.
My issue with the “punishment” discussion is that it rarely addresses the reasons why players leave keys. Where is the punishment for people who don’t play mechanics, who do 100k overall, who don’t interrupt, who forget to talent into abilities to help with affixes, who take heaps of avoidable damage and never use their defensive CDs?
If you get right down to it, those are the people ruining the key, not the person who eventually leaves because a run is botched.
their reason is sometimes not an enough reason all the time. Even though sometimes they’re the one who fails and leaves in the sametime. I’m not saying imprisoning people to doomed keys, but just a few minute ago healer died on first boss of ruby to his crystal because he didnt move, thats okay fail happens.
While rest wanted to continue, because lust wasnt wasted and we still had enough timer to complete. Prolly he’ll join another key in a few mins then he might ruin for another key for another four person aswell.
RL Emergencies ofcourse understandable its a game after all. But that was their decision the join a group on the first place anyway. No one gets invited forcefully. It goes for me aswell I’m the one that invites/chooses that person aswell. But I’m not saying that we should forcefully keep people in the group. I’m saying that it’s to indivual decision at the moment.
Lets say if you join a beat timer group.
you decided to dedicate 35min of your time to this dungeon if it will finished on intime.
key goes well until one thing fails on last boss there’s 8minutes left in timer. (you’re still able to kill it intime)
And someone believes in the group indivually that this group wont be able to kill this boss and leaves.
on this kind of scenarios there’ should be a group decision. thats why forfeit vote would be okay. no one gonna blame someone because on a beat timer group someone left because group isn’t going to make it in time…
I’m not talking anything relevant to your comment, imo. I’m not talking about the botched runs. I’m not talking about +40 min finished dungeons. Like it’s completion dungeon run for weekly, you choose that on group finder, you tittle it, you tell that aswell before the start and someone leaves that because its not going to be intime for a 2-3 min.
on the second part I think this 5 crest/12 crest its not good design anyway, it should always give 12 crest if you finish anyway. you might give extra +3 for intime so people can do one upgrade per intime run, thats my opinion. if you finish intime you rewarded with rating + keyupgrade anyway.
btw if you are talking about me, I believe that I’m doing pretty above the standard and fine on my own. I’m pretty sure that I’m not underperforming on dungeon mechanics etc. I dont have to prove anything to you on that but I love playing this game, due to some irl issues, work related things you might spend less time than your usual, to get vault save/loot with good effort and performance. And due to avoid issues you tell that people upfront but they saying ok anyway then doing something different from what they said and getting away with it shouldn’t be an optional thing.
I’m not saying there should be punishment, it might give positive things to staying four aswell.
I’m saying that you might let 4 people to get some kind of weird token that could be exchanged for a random item later on. Or If a tank or healer leaves you might decrease damage taken etc. To let others to finish dungeon. I believe that everyone deserve a chance to finish on that kind of situation but someones decision effecting others a lot not an okay thing. thats my opinion. Thats why I opened this thread so we can find a better way to handle this.
i mean general "you " as nameless random pugger you meet in +8 who got lucky to get +6 timed +2 and expect people in lfg to carry him .
then oyu edn up with people dont below tank dps in +8 . which is annoying like hell especialy on tyranical weeks where if bosses take forever then its putting so much pressure on other 4 players.
lets stop pretending that people leave keys because they are evil by nature - no they leave because they see that its not worth investing 20-40 more minutes to get 5 crests and risk that its the underperformer who ofc will get gear .
better join another dungeon and +2 it in the same time.
As I said I’m not talking about botched keys or possibillity to be botched aswell. I might get that. Its avoidable with something like giving a cap like above +15 death its okay to leave etc. As you know there’re a lot of games with with surrender/forfeit vote systems. which sometimes 2 votes even okay to get forfeited on 5 man content with the circumstances while sometimes even 3 isnt enough. Depending on the situations.
Any kind of system designed to “force” players to stay when their expectations were not met, will just make the problem worse.
There are systems like those in queues, because blizzard is “making” the groups, and gives incentives/punishments for those runs to be completed.
But for groups that are made by players, the key is communicated expectations. If the expectations of all players are not met by the group, then any individual might decide that this is not worth their time. Mostly this is when things go south, and people decide to leave, because the extra hassle is not worth the effort.
To be fair, I feel that this is ok and any system that would “punish” people for leave, would just make the game worse. Reason being that if the player that wanted to leave is now “stuck” in a group that he wants nothing to do with, the most probable course of action is that he trolls (wasting more time and the peace of mind to the other players).
One part that I agree with you 100%, is that 5 crests for non timed key is just bad design. There are already penalties for not timing the key, and this one is not really needed. Second one, is that a “debuff”/penalty would work in keys that are classified as “for completion”. Most people go for regular keys, and avoid/ignore those keys, unless they want to 100% go for weekly no leavers. In those cases I find it ok enforcing it (worse case is some players that do not care about that type of keys, now just avoid them).
The m+ score is more akin to a highscore in a game like tetris. If you give up on a game of tetris you don’t lose your highscore. If you give up on a m+ run, that doesn’t erase your highest achieved score either.
I think this is pretty much what happened in league of legends (and is probably still happening).
The leaver would just log back in every few minutes and move a bit so he doesn’t register as AFK.
Sure, if every missed interrupt is punished with -10 score, every time someone stands in the bad with -20 score, and every time someone does substantially less damage than they should for their item level with -50 score. I’m all for that.
