With season 4 coming up, can Augs and Plates please get the legendaries for free, otherwise they probably won’t be able to compete.
And seeing as they’re upgradeable, maybe just make them weaker as the farmed ones just to get alt’s, rerollers started.
Cheers
People worry too much. If you aren’t pushing super high keys or mythic raids, it’s not going to be a big deal.
All affected specs are perfectly viable for weekly 20s and heroic raiding. I have never seen any group in this level of content reject someone due to lacking a legendary.
Personally, I don’t have a problem with a (slight) starting advantage in S4 for people who stuck it out through S2 and S3. Sure, a handful of people got crazy lucky with their drops in LFR on week 1, but most folks I know got theirs very late in the season after a lot of farming time in higher raids. They’ve earned those legendaries. Other people have had fair chance to earn theirs too. And if they haven’t dropped yet, I suspect BLP will carry over and they’ll get them very early.
You could’ve made this point 2 months ago.
“freshly rolled/rerolled characters can’t compete with those that already have the legendary”
That statement was true 2 months ago as well. So why now? What changes in S4? What makes S4 launch so different that you think you should get something others put 10+ hours and hundreds of thousands of gold into, for free?
If you start working as a junior level in your field, will you ask for the same pay as a senior level worker because otherwise you wouldn’t be able to compete with them for housing etc?
Rather a lot more, ngl.
I think my warrior got his legendary around the 10th raid. Probably a bit more for my evoker, so 30-40 hours/character in just raid time, after their raid groups had the last boss on farm. Which could easily have been the 10th raid per group.
Then there was being ready for those raids, running normal a few times first, the maintenance to have consumables and repair money, the minimum of 1 key per week but more likely 4 keys because the character is doing its best to be a useful member of the raid rather than a deadweight carry.
TLDR, it’s likely 150+ hours per character with a legendary, beyond the getting to level 70, if you’re not spectacularly lucky but do have a good supportive team. If you don’t, and you’re flying purely solo, it’s probably 2-5x that proving yourself to pugs. (But that’s a bit on you to invest time into forming social contacts rather than moaning that it’s too hard to be social in an MMO.)
Which is why I have no problems with those folks not having to re-farm next season. Although I’m as yet unclear on the upgrade process and maybe it, too, will be a pain. Either way, they have already earned the 1-2% advantage. Everyone who didn’t log the hours can kind of suck it up 
Even if you dont need the leggo for any content.
It feels bad to do -10% damage because you don’t have it. And especially because cause you did not get lucky.
Earned? Funny…
Its RNG. They earned nothing at all. At best you can call it a “participation trophie” for showing up at a Heroic Raid every week. At best.
RNG and leggos was a horrendous idea.
And I have to agree with OP that RNG should be removed in S4. But I disagree that you should be able to just buy it for tokens.
You should be able to deterministically farm it in some way. Instead of this RNG BS.
Because people right now are choosing what they play next season. Like you said; the statement is true now as well. And you can’t deny 2 months ago we didn’t have topics about the leggo. They were here all the time.
If we ignore bad luck protection which makes it a grind because it definitely will drop in the end?
Some people were lucky and dropped it early. Most stuck it out for 10+ raids to get theirs. BLP does work, but you have to stick to the grind. People who did one raid, said “aww it never drops” and stopped indeed never got it, but that was a choice to not bother.
If we don’t think grinding out 10x heroic raids plus all the prep required to have a character ready to do that qualifies you as having earned a thing? But I’m not sure what you would think qualifies as ‘earning’ something at that point. What do we want them to have done to ‘earn’ it?
It’s not like you can drop into a pug raid with an undergeared character that doesn’t perform and not have been kicked long before reaching Fyrakk. Most people with that legendary have earned it with determination, loyalty to a raid group, and personal performance. It’s not just showing up, it’s showing up and not being deadweight, and that has been true for S2 and S3.
I don’t mind the removal of RNG from legendaries at all! I think it would be healthy.
But I do think it should be something like collect 20 fragments; you get 1 from normal, 2 from heroic, and 3 from mythic. In a regular season of ~6 months, it would be completely viable even for normal raiders who did the slow grind over 20 weeks.
Given that S4 will be fated and relatively short, we might have to reduce it down to like 2 mythic kills, 3 heroic, and 4 normal. But that’s an outlier season, and I think the system would make sense most of the time.
Yeah, but they were somewhat hyperbole then and now. Most people do not need a legendary. Most players don’t even do +20 keys and only do normal/heroic raiding, if they raid at all. This small advantage that is meaningful in the 25+ push crowd really isn’t a big deal to 99% of players. Too many people seem to think they are the top 1% when they’re nothing close.
It’s just FOMO. And from what I can see, the FOMO wasn’t even really very valid because an awful lot of legendaries have been dropping the last few weeks. I think my wednesday group had 3… over 20 players. People who have dedicated to the raid grind, got on it as early as they could, and not slacked off, are getting there. Sure, it’s late season, but again - it didn’t matter anyway… it’s really just a shiny cosmetic, and that is valid for the rest of time.
“And especially because cause you did not get lucky.”
"Earned? Funny…
Its RNG. They earned nothing at all. At best you can call it a “participation trophie” for showing up at a Heroic Raid every week. At best."
We know that the system guarenteed the legendary to drop on the 15th heroic kill the very latest. So getting it earlier is RNG, but getting it at all is not. You cannot call it a “participation trophy” and complain about it being RNG at the same time. That does not work.
So yea, it is NOT RNG. It is basically the same as farming out the resources needed to buy something. Only difference, at the start we didn’t know what the resource was, and you can get luckier than others to have multiple resources drop per kill.
“You should be able to deterministically farm it in some way. Instead of this RNG BS.”
There is. 15 HC fyrakk kills. So either you are talking here without having any clue on how it works or you are willfully ignorant of the facts and want to bend them however you feel
“And you can’t deny 2 months ago we didn’t have topics about the leggo. They were here all the time.”
If you make such claims, I hope you can back them up. Please link me a topic from 2 months ago when someone was arguing that they should get the lego for free.
OR admit that you are just a liar.
I don’t count leveling and gearing in there, because for me, the acquisition of the legendary is for an existing char. The reason for having the char at the gear level it is is not for the sole purpose of getting the legendary basically.
Technically the things you had to do for the lego:
15 hc fyrakk kills (ofc it’s different for mythic I guess, but most don’t raid mythic fyrakk), VERY low estimate 30min/kill
~10 superblooms at 15min/sb
~2-3 hours of rare farming
~1 hour of flying around picking up quests
~ 30 min to kill the 3 bosses with the grip
That’s like 13.5-14.5 hours of pure efficient legoacquisition.
More sounds like you haven’t been on the forums. So many topics about players having done the raid 10 times and still did not have the leggo it is unbelievable you call someone else a liar.
An now people are deciding what to play next season. So the topic about the leggo stays relevant.
Have a nice day.
10% isn’t of course a small advantage. Everyone who is playing on their own level would benefit from the leggo. While my reference is obviously ~25 keys, so i might have seen too many people around me frustrated about not having the leggo after 10+ heroic kills. I have seen more people reroll to other classes because of it than people actually getting the leggo.
Edit;
Honestly, there are multiple reasons i am not going to play new specs next season, but i am also not going to play my frost DK. A big reason is that leggo.
Remind me again what we are talking about :
(A) A legendary Mog
(B) OR, a legendary weapon to use in content.
So what if there is BLP and you get it after 10 weeks. What use is there for a leggo that you cant use until the last 1 or 2 months of a season?
Cause at that point it should be a Mog or something. Like a special mount or a title.
That is a really low bar. If that is the requirement for a Legendary : Stick to a grind and don’t be a dead weight…
Might as well give it for tokens really. Because you are rewarding what should be a basic behavior in any guild raid environment. Even if its normal raiding. Thats my opinion.
Ok. Now serious discussion.
Here is the situation with legendaries :
If you want an item to be “legendary” it needs to be better than the equivalent purple item. In other words, this 2-handed leggo needs to be better than any epic 2-hander you can farm. We can agree on that right?
So. What does this mean? This means that whoever does NOT have the legendary is in a disadvantage to a person that does. And sure. You don’t technically need it for Heroic Raid… but it feels bad for the player in question to do -X% damage just because.
So the more “lengendary” this item gets, the more “I feel bad for not having it” there is.
Now. Followup :
As I said before. What purpose is there for an item like that, if you will only use if for a month before the next tier. Tier that by the way, will make an 496 ilvl item obsolete. Because you can farm an epic 528 easily.
It was not like that in past expansions. In classic wow, you still used the legendaries from Molten Core in Naxramas almost 2 years later. They were that good. And their acquisition was RNG.
But here it makes sense to “grind the leggo”. Because you will get it, and use it for a long time.
If you wanted to do something like that in DF with a 5-6 month patch cadence… you would have to put an RNG legendary in S1, and make it 528 in S1. In S1 if you remember, we were 408 ilvl more or less. That means, that you would have to give a 2-handed weapon that is 120 ilvls better than anything else you can get in S1.
That sounds absurd !!!
And that is why, if we have a game made up of “seasons” you cant have grinds of any kind for items as powerful as a Leggo, or, some Raid Trinkets/rings that are really, really good.
So its not FOMO. Its basic logic here.
Just read this. I will quote myself then.
There is your answer.
Whoever got lucky and got it at the beggining… got a legendary weapon.
Whoever had to grind for 15 weeks to get it. Got a legendary mog. But don’t worry, you are guaranteed to get that mog. 
Some got a weapon. Some got a mog.
What a fantastic system we got there ladies and gentlemen ! Hurray !
the problem with legendary is that it only comes from raid and there is no catch up.
i effectively cannot play plate classes in s3 and s4 because of it.
nobody wants to be lower dps in a 20, 25 or 30, whether you need it or not in 20s and above people will only invite warriors or rets that have the weapon.
so as long as any legendary stays raid only i will always not play the spec.
if a legendary drops with 1% from mythic fyrak it would be even better because almost nobody would have it then and you can actually tune the classes for not having it instead of having it
I mean, if the legendary becomes a deterministic grind of 10-15 weeks, then that is what the game’s power curve adapts around. Blizz would end up issuing a minor nerf to plate classes on exactly the week when the legendary comes online. The alternative being that those classes were underpowered for the startup period.
That said… Is Fyr’alath actually a proper, measurable, feelable increase to dps? Will it make someone suddenly able to time 25s when before they couldn’t do 24s?
I feel like there’s a lot of fuss about something that ain’t all that. It absolutely is a “best in slot” weapon, no arguments. But it isn’t enough to make or break a player’s game.
Which is why I think it’s just FOMO and cosmetics and “I have this” factor.
You do between 10 and 20% more DPS. Depending on class.
Some classes, like DK tank your DPS doubles with it.
Its measurable.
Think about it. If it wasent… then there would be no objective difference between a “legendary weapon” and an “epic weapon”. Making it an expensive and tedious transmog.
In order to make that legendary desirable in the first place, you need it to be strong. Otherwise it would be like the CE mount from the raid. Nice to have… but nobody is complaining FOMO about it…
And then, you have to put yourself in the shoes of the player. FOMO is one thing. Knowing you do 15% less dps… because you dont have 1 item… feels bad.
And it feels bad while you do 10s… 20s… or even 25s… dosent matter.
How would you put together a “power curve” that is based on spamable M+ gear… where you are fully geared by week 2.
If you want, I can get into the details in a followup post.
But TLDR : there is no “power curve” that lasts for 15 weeks in the current patch cadence. By the time 15 weeks hits, every guild has cleared the Raid. Every team has pushed its keys. And people are already on their 3rd alt.
That is the reality of wow as it is today. You cant have an RNG lego in a world like that. Like I mentioned before.
The leggo that would make sense would be to get it for free at the beginning and you upgrade it by doing activities. By the time 10 weeks hit, its max rank. But that is not RNG. That is deterministic.
THAT is feasible in todays wow.
Ok but how much is the “bad luck protection” actually? Or more specifically how much does 1 Fyrrak booger increase your chances, because if it’s 1% that’s not really “definitely will drop by the end” due to the fact that the end in terms of usefulness of these items comes of the end of a season (aka before the next ilvl jump). I mean sure theoretically I can kill Badman McEvil 100 times and I will get the McBoomstick but if it comes 1,5 years too late all I have is a cool looking mog.
Halfway right. If you want a legendary like that, yes introduce it in S1 make it ilvl 430 (or whatever), in S2 introduce an item that increases the legendary ilvl by 50-60, repeat for next patch. Not completely overpowered and and still viable throughout the expansion.
Imo best implementation of Legos was WotLK and Cata, everyone could pick up the quest but completing it required a guild effort and only a handful of people (if not only one) could complete it at a time.
I couldn’t compete with people who had the legendary axe in december, like the ret I played M+ with, it would have been nice if I could have had it for free for Season 3 so I could be competitive with those people.
But I didn’t get it for free, I tried every week until Blizzard buffed the drop rate and then I kept trying more and I finally got it. Why should anyone get it for free and what difference does it make when many people went the whole of S3 not having one while others did, you’re just playing the same game I did in S3, where not having the legendary didn’t stop me from doing anything.
Farming it is easy, the drop rate got increased, what are you waiting for.