LET TWINKS queue bgs with levelers!

[Dejarous-draenor (Dejarous)]

Twinks are generally awful players that want to use the gear disparity to crap on normal players so they pretend to themselves they aren’t terribad.

[Tahra-earthen-ring (Tahra)]

@Liljon-ragnaros

Because you are contributing nothing to the conversation.

Yeah I am.
Twinking is bad. That is MY contribution to the conversation.

@Liljon-ragnaros

Then why isn’t twinking an RPG element, when you can maximize yourself out?

It’s abusing a system to get an unfair advantage versus other players.
Frankly, it’s pathetic.

[Liljon-ragnaros (Liljon)]

No.

@Liljon-ragnaros

I do semi twinking quite regularly. By that I mean that I make a new toon, and fully enchant it’s looms. With the right class, and the right enchants, and the super secret twinking potion that I won’t talk about, you can hit 80-90% of the power level of a twink. I had people reporting me numerous times, that I’m somehow cheating and getting into BGs as a twink. Guess what, no, I’m no twink. I just know what I am doing.

People are just lacking knowledge is all. Twinks are not what they used to be: they used to be literal oneshot machines, but nowadays, they’re much more balanced. It’s the exact same situation as in max level BGs, higher geared people usually win over lower geared people, but the difference in gear is actually much smaller than it is at 120. Above level 39, all classes become viable too, so BGs aren’t just dominated by Arcanes, Restodruids and the such.

Twinking is not a problem in PvP, and for PvE, it’d be fun if they allowed us to play with people again without taking away their XP gains. Boosting others (for gold) is literally not a problem, in fact, it’s a community driven catch up mechanic that has existed since Vanilla, and it’s great.

Tl;dr: people cry about twinks because they are stupid.

@Liljon-ragnaros

You should try twinking yourself sir. It’s only as bad as people make it to be at 20-39; but that is because of class viability, not because of twinks having insane gear. Go make a level 20 arcane mage right now, and enchant it with nothing more than Elemental Force and Hidden Satyr. You’ll see the results.

@Liljon-ragnaros

I’m sorry to say, but WoW isn’t the olympics. In fact, at low levels, BGs are literally more balanced above 39, because of how number values and utility distribution across the levels work.

Level59 twinking is the best example of this.

And twinks generally don’t want the queues to merge again because we want to farm noobs, it is because the queues are broken. You need 30+ people to be qued at the same time for a WSG pop, and there aren’t enough of us to sustain regular queues.

@Liljon-ragnaros

It is still very much possible to beat twinks as a leveler. Believe it (or not, I’m p sure you won’t), but as we go up in the brackets, skill starts to matter more and more, especially starting at the 50-59 bracket.

The thing is, with a semi twink, I can literally do what I did with my 59 twink as well, farm bad players. The only difference is that I will eventually outlevel my bracket - at which point, I can just make a new character, and start over.

Edit: and funnily enough, Blizz did do a lot for twink balance in 8.2: they rebalanced a lot of the stuff that was actually broken (Sul’thraze, Ramstein’s), and introduced better gear for the levelers by giving higher ilvl gear from dungeons, BG bags, and from quests. But then they also seperated queues, which was a very contradictory move to say the least.

@Liljon-ragnaros

FIrst of all, I literally haven’t seen a single new player in BGs playing the game since BfA began, only bad players. I literally seen people in the lvl20 bracket fully twinked up on his arcane mage not even using Frost Nova and dying. What I have seen is a lot of people asking me how I’m doing so good, so I explained it to them, and helped them be better. Wouldn’t you know it, several guys I helped out even got their Wrecking Balls just as they got back into BGs. And they weren’t twinks

Second of all, just because someone twinked up their toon doesn’t mean that they are an unstoppable one man army. Low level PvP depends a lot on playing the proper class, and the proper enchants.

If anything, the low level brackets are unbalanced because of the fact that at level 20, a druid has: travel form, hots, spammable strong heal, instantcast strong heal, car form, bear form, wrath and dots. An arcane mage has: Polymorph, Nova and Missiles. Contrasted to a Retribution: they have a couple damaging spells and a hoj. Cool.

Of course this diminishes as we go up the brackets, but it still sticks because of how low level numbers work. A sub rogue is going to be an extremely great pick from level 40-119. A fire mage is going to be an amazing pick from level 60-119. Warriors start to kick in at 39-40 as well.

@Liljon-ragnaros

That is a class issue, not a twink issue, just like how Arcane Mage and Rdruid are super broken at 20-39. BMs and MMs are naturally strong at low level. MM can be twinked to a point where they can literally global you from Camouflage, and you don’t even need to push it super far, you just need to push the consistency of getting crits.

I advise you read more what me and Terluan said. You also should try it yourself.

[Dejarous-draenor (Dejarous)]

Writing a thesis about it doesn’t change the simple fact you’re wrong.

When twinks could queue with newbies there were loads of them. Now they can’t, theres almost none to be found?

Why?

[Bjornson-nordrassil]

I still remember my regular mage at 19 facing a twink rogue at wsg during TBC
Because I did a good job CCing him he instead opted to spam his ranged weapon until he killed me by outdamaging my fireballs

[Liljon-ragnaros (Liljon)]

@Tahra-earthen-ring

It’s abusing a system to get an unfair advantage versus other players.
Frankly, it’s pathetic.

So… picking a covenant based on a power choice that you are not allowed to switch from is an actual RPG element of the game, but someone who has put numerous hours into their character, and got good at the game dominating players who are bad at the game isn’t?

Give me a break. The exact same happens at 120. Every random BG I enter with my retri, I decimate any low geared or bad players. Why is that fair compared to twinking, when at max level, you are required to do 30times more grinding than max level? And the power gap at 120 is literally higher than it is in twink brackets, because of corruption, azerite gear, leggo back, essences, and PvE gear.

@Dejarous-draenor

Writing a thesis about it doesn’t change the simple fact you’re wrong.

Just like you writing barely a sentence doesn’t prove that you are right, or that I’m wrong.

@Dejarous-draenor

When twinks could queue with newbies there were loads of them. Now they can’t, theres almost none to be found?

Why?

I advise you read my “thesis” to figure out why. I’ll make your life easier by quoting myself again.

@Liljon-ragnaros

And twinks generally don’t want the queues to merge again because we want to farm noobs, it is because the queues are broken. You need 30+ people to be qued at the same time for a WSG pop, and there aren’t enough of us to sustain regular queues.

I also advise that you read this.

@Liljon-ragnaros

FIrst of all, I literally haven’t seen a single new player in BGs playing the game since BfA began, only bad players. I literally seen people in the lvl20 bracket fully twinked up on his arcane mage not even using Frost Nova and dying. What I have seen is a lot of people asking me how I’m doing so good, so I explained it to them, and helped them be better. Wouldn’t you know it, several guys I helped out even got their Wrecking Balls just as they got back into BGs. And they weren’t twinks

Second of all, just because someone twinked up their toon doesn’t mean that they are an unstoppable one man army. Low level PvP depends a lot on playing the proper class, and the proper enchants.

If anything, the low level brackets are unbalanced because of the fact that at level 20, a druid has: travel form, hots, spammable strong heal, instantcast strong heal, car form, bear form, wrath and dots. An arcane mage has: Polymorph, Nova and Missiles. Contrasted to a Retribution: they have a couple damaging spells and a hoj. Cool.

Of course this diminishes as we go up the brackets, but it still sticks because of how low level numbers work. A sub rogue is going to be an extremely great pick from level 40-119. A fire mage is going to be an amazing pick from level 60-119. Warriors start to kick in at 39-40 as well.

@Liljon-ragnaros

That is a class issue, not a twink issue.

[Bodybit-argent-dawn]

@Liljon-ragnaros

dominating players who are bad at the game isn’t?

You mean player that want to level and that don’t spend countless of hours at level 19 going into bg with full profession and consumable just to poop on someone that is probably playing that class for the first time?

Sure

[Dejarous-draenor (Dejarous)]

Didn’t read it, you can’t escape the FACT that since they stopped twinks ganking newbies in BG’s almost noone plays them.

I didn’t write a thesis on it because the truth is simply stated.

Keep deluding yourself that you’re ascending to genji level 12 of enlightenment by twinking. You aren’t fooling anyone else.

[Tahra-earthen-ring (Tahra)]

@Liljon-ragnaros

So… picking a covenant based on a power choice that you are not allowed to switch from is an actual RPG element of the game, but someone who has put numerous hours into their character, and got good at the game dominating players who are bad at the game isn’t?

I don’t know why you’re comparing the two… They’re not even in the same ballpark.

@Liljon-ragnaros

The exact same happens at 120.

No it doesn’t. And it’s utterly stupid that you claim it does.
People are not in those BGs to compete against insecure little people who want to get their e-peen by defeating people who are just there to level up through PvP. There’s no such thing at max level. There you go do PvP to get stronger, gear, rank up… whatever. It’s an end destination. While during leveling it is NOT.

As an analogy:

Twinks are akin to soldiers dressed in full battle gear shooting passers by who are just there to have a friendly jog and get their physical condition up a bit. They’re not there for a full out war situation.

[Noremorze-outland]

Hilarious. We’ve all see the twinks claiming they didn’t twink to destroy people who didn’t stand a chance, they all claimed they wanted to fight other twinks. The reality however was that they really did not, queues wouldn’t even pop for most xp off brackets. Twinks claimed they were the ones keeping brackets alive, turned out it was just a handful after all.

Destroyed queue times? Don’t make me laugh, once news got out that brackets were seperated more and more people started to play them in wotlk untill legion.

Nothing to see here a typical selfish twink talking about how important they were for pvp, while in reality they never were. We all know why you twink, you like to feel superior over people who can’t fight back. So please by all means, continue with your bs.

[Jitea-argent-dawn (Jitea)]

in WOTLK we could q vs lvlrs

[Liljon-ragnaros (Liljon)]

@Bodybit-argent-dawn

You mean player that want to level and that don’t spend countless of hours at level 19 going into bg with full profession and consumable just to poop on someone that is probably playing that class for the first time?

Consumables are cheap to pick up, professions don’t matter unless you were able to abuse Wotlk engineering on your 19, 29, 39, or 49 when Legion prepatch started, and all of those players are not playing 20. Picking up wotlk engineering for the engi belt at lvl58 costs like 3k gold, and 10 minutes of your life.

@Dejarous-draenor

Didn’t read it, you can’t escape the FACT that since they stopped twinks ganking newbies in BG’s almost noone plays them.

Because there aren’t enough of us to sustain regular queues, just as I said, but also because they barred XPoff players from boosting people in PvE.

@Dejarous-draenor

I didn’t write a thesis on it because the truth is simply stated.

I gave you arguments as to why you are wrong, give me a proper counterargumet to make me change my mind.

@Tahra-earthen-ring

I don’t know why you’re comparing the two… They’re not even in the same ballpark.

Because it shows your double standards.

@Tahra-earthen-ring

No it doesn’t. And it’s utterly stupid that you claim it does.

Yes it does. I can literally que into a BG on my retri, and any low geared / bad people will be destroyed. And there are a LOT of them.

@Tahra-earthen-ring

There you go do PvP to get stronger, gear, rank up… whatever. It’s an end destination . While during leveling it is NOT.

Those brackets are the end destination for twinks, and the difference between a semi-twink (which EVERYONE has Access to) and a twink is 20-25% at most, which is a margin that is much larger at 120. The margin between me and my freshly dinged 440 ilvl retri buddy is more than 80%.

A fresh 120 has to gear up, while a low level player has to buy heirlooms, enchants, and extremely cheap consumables to pick up with twinks. There are 3 things that are broken on low level: 20-39 arcane mages and restodruids (which, again, levelers have Access too as well), and hunters up until lvl70-80. And those aren’t twink issues, that is a class design issue. There is a difference.

@Tahra-earthen-ring

who are just there to level up through PvP.

Funnily enough, a lot of people praised me and other fellow twinks for boosting them through BGs very fast. I was even praised on semi-twinks for making their lives easier. I also met a few people who wanted to report me for being a twink in BGs… xd

@Noremorze-outland

Destroyed queue times? Don’t make me laugh, once news got out that brackets were seperated more and more people started to play them in wotlk untill legion.

Because twinks were always a couple handful reliable players who qued BGs, making it easier for levelers to get a BG pop. Before the seperation, at 39-59 (which is what I played) was no more than 10 minutes at all times. After the seperation, queues can last up to 30 minutes, even during peak EU times.

And btw, you don’t even do PvP. You literally proved it in another thread that your rogue last saw PvP in TBC, which does make sense, because Twinks in TBC could LITERALLY oneshot people.

Times have changed.

[Dejarous-draenor (Dejarous)]

I’m not interested in changing your mind. Nor do I need to try.

It’s for you to change Blizzards. And frankly you won’t. They crushed you like you stomped the noobies. Boo hoo.

[Bodybit-argent-dawn]

@Liljon-ragnaros

Funnily enough, a lot of people praised me

Bow down before his true form

[Tahra-earthen-ring (Tahra)]

@Liljon-ragnaros

Because it shows your double standards.

It doesn’t. BECAUSE THE TWO ARE TOTALLY DIFFERENT.

@Liljon-ragnaros

Yes it does. I can literally que into a BG on my retri, and any low geared / bad people will be destroyed. And there are a LOT of them.

@Liljon-ragnaros

Those brackets are the end destination for twinks

BUT NOT FOR EVERYONE ELSE. Hence they’re kept seperated. Tadaaaa. Done.

@Liljon-ragnaros

Funnily enough, a lot of people praised me and other fellow twinks for boosting them through BGs very fast. I was even praised on semi-twinks for making their lives easier.

Yeah they got easy wins due to your abuse. People like easy wins.
It just makes my point stronger tbh. But you’re too stubborn (or stupid) to admit this.

Anyway… I’m done with your senseless replies. I don’t care enough about this topic since I don’t pvp ANYWAY. My opinion has been made clear. Bye.

[Noremorze-outland]

I don’t pvp? Weird, I guess my 209 honor level I got from doing dungeons then, I also didn’t know that I got more than 300k hks from killing npcs. Perhabs look at your own statistics first before trying to act smart.

[Razien-quelthalas (Razien)]

@Noremorze-outland

Hilarious. We’ve all see the twinks claiming they didn’t twink to destroy people who didn’t stand a chance, they all claimed they wanted to fight other twinks.

This character has 60+ Exalted reputations purely because it helps me kill people easier.

Nat Pagle’s fishing rod really does the trick. /sarcasm

…See how that logic doesn’t hold up?

[Liljon-ragnaros (Liljon)]

@Tahra-earthen-ring

It doesn’t. BECAUSE THE TWO ARE TOTALLY DIFFERENT.

Sure, they work differently, but both of them are very much RPG elements. In an RPG, putting in time and effort will result in better success across the board.

@Tahra-earthen-ring

Yeah they got easy wins due to your abuse. People like easy wins.
It just makes my point stronger tbh. But you’re too stubborn (or stupid) to admit this.

How is it abuse? A lot of twinks just happen to be good players, with good gear. A lot of NPCs play BGs. Easy to win that way.

@Tahra-earthen-ring

Anyway… I’m done with your senseless replies. I don’t care enough about this topic since I don’t pvp ANYWAY.

Then why are you even commenting on twinks? lol

@Noremorze-outland

I don’t pvp? Weird, I guess my 209 honor level I got from doing dungeons then, I also didn’t know that I got more than 300k hks from killing npcs. Perhabs look at your own statistics first before trying to act smart.

As I said, I based my argument on what you said in another thread, which was that your rogue didn’t PvP since TBC. I accept being proven wrong though, however, that doesn’t change the fact that you have 0 idea about what twinks can do, what they are doing, and how they are doing it.

[Noremorze-outland]

@Liljon-ragnaros

hat doesn’t change the fact that you have 0 idea about what twinks can do, what they are doing, and how they are doing it.

False, I know exactly what’s going on. Try again.

[Liljon-ragnaros (Liljon)]

@Noremorze-outland

false, try again.

If it was false, then you’d rather complain about arcanes, restodruids and hunters being extremely unbalanced at low level pvp. If it was false, you’d know that semi-twinks can absolutely destroy people - including twinks. If it was false, then you’d understand that some classes have an inherent advantage over others in specific brackets, because of utility and spell distribution across level, and number scalings.