Here’s the problem, as I see it, with how Blizzard writes Sylvanas and the Forsaken.
In Warcraft 3, Sylvanas had a relatively light presence, compared to the other main characters.
In WoW, BC, WotLK, Cataclysm and MoP, she likewise did not appear that much, in terms of the overall expansion story. WotLK probably features her most prominently, but in the scope of the entire expansion she’s not really front and centre.
But, in all of those expansions, Blizzard hinted that the Forsaken were actually getting up to a lot of shady stuff that we just didn’t see.
Then BFA rolled around and, because she’s a popular character, they put Sylvanas on centre stage. It didn’t work, she should never have been Warchief, she and the Forsaken had more value as dubiously loyal members of the Horde - an alliance of convenience more than anything else.
Sylvanas is the kind of character that benefits most from mystery, from we the players knowing that she’s up to something, but not knowing what or being able to prove anything.
Her so-called “plan” in SL is nothing like that though. She’s a villain, plain and simple and any redemption arc now will fall flat on its face.
Sylvanas: You fools! You don’t understand my grand plan, I’m so misunderstood! Players: Okay then tell us your plan! Sylvanas: …No.
Shame i have to inform you but this is WoW not Warcraft 3.
It didnt work out for the alliance, as you can see they still cry about her.
For horde side, if you exclude the trio of traitors since MoP she worked fine as the alliance was bowed down.
Because youre alliance biased, if you where not you could see your factions villains like Jaina for example, the dalaran butcher and the crimes your faction committed VS zandalari just because they aided the horde
The story has become a horrible mess since they hired these failed writers that take themselves too seriously. They’re trying to turn WoW into Game of Thrones but clearly lack the ability and it turned the story into a circus show.
The way Blizzard tends to write mystery into their stories is by having the major characters understand more than we do as players.
It’s reminiscent of those crime movies where the detective has finally gotten hold of the witness and he’s about to say who the murderer is – and then he gets shot and all he manages to say is: “…It was…was…Ma…M…” and then he points a finger at an umbrella in the corner of the room before dying. And then you’ve kind of gotten a clue but the mystery goes on!
Later in the movie the murderer is caught and you’re ready for the great reveal. What was the motive? Why did he do it? And again you get a clue more than an answer: “I did it because I had to! You don’t see what I see. You don’t know what’s going on behind the scenes!” And then you’ve got the conclusion to the story, but you’ve also got a hint that there’s more to it than what has been revealed.
It’s the same in WoW. The villains always know more than we do and they never reveal everything. The mystery is always preserved.
Nozdorumu when you fight him says: “I have witnessed the true End Time. This? This is a blessing you simply cannot comprehend.”
Star Augur Etraeus is the same. He shows you what various futures could look like, but never really explains the nitty gritty of the cosmic conflict we’re seemingly part of.
Sylvanas talks about how This world is a prison and I will set us all free, but doesn’t really elaborate on what that means.
Medivh…Ha! That guy is a walking tease.
Players are never privy to the full picture, but the major characters tend to be. So the lure and mystery of the story is of course to put the clues together – like the detective in the crime movie – and uncover the real truth that’s underneath the surface.
And Blizzard, to their credit, are really good at having a story on the surface that’s fairly simple and approachable for everyone, hence why people think it’s all plain and simple.
But beneath that surface is where all the hidden motivations, conflicts, strife, and agendas exist. That’s the juice that makes the story appealing, because it turns seemingly plain characters like Sylvannas and Sargeras and N’zoth into big mysteries with hidden motivations and agendas.
But it demands effort on the individual to be able to appreciate the story on its deeper levels, I think.
Hi, main horde here. Just cba updating forums and missing out on my lovely post count.
Sylvanas is boring character and she is indeed a villain. If I were to care about class fantasy (which I really don’t as I play whatever I want for the week that passes by) I’d side with the philosophy of the horde druids that many things that Sylvanas did was plain and simply wrong. Thrall, as many mistakes as he made, was still a much stronger (in character traits) of a leader than Sylvanas. Even Jaina has better leadership potential than Sylvanas.
Because it all comes down to whatever you subjectively, think is the main goal with the story. You seem to be the Gul’dan type of orc who just wants to destroy and dominate (not related that your forum avatar is funnily enough an orc) and thats fine, but many people want to pursue a more “for azeroth” kind of mentality.
Who is to say who is wrong? Its just different perspectives.
The only satisfactory ending with Sylvanass is her death. She is completely and utterly irredeemable. Nothing can ever justify her actions and nothing she could ever do can make up for the suffering she inflicted upon others. I don’t care for her motives and reasons any more. A person should be judged by her actions and her actions speak loud and clear. She does not deserve to live anymore.
Isn’t that the story hook that Blizzard are playing on?
I mean, as players we’re supposed on the side of Azeroth and fight for our own existence and survival and such.
The Warcraft RTS games have a narrative similar to Asterix & Obelix. This tiny Gaelic village against all of the Roman empire. Likewise with Warcraft, then it was the denizens of Azeroth against the entire Orcs, Burning Legion, and Scourge. Very straight-forward and simple.
The angle Blizzard seems to explore is why all these foreign entities keep attacking Azeroth. What is it they want? What’s so special about this planet?
And as more events unfold we’re slowly learning that the threat of our existence is far greater than we ever imagined, that our initial perception on reality is not to be trusted. We get to zoom more and more out and see that there’s a lot more to be afraid of than the dangers already on Azeroth.
It’s a bit like the Avengers movie after Tony Stark flies into the wormhole and sees the size and scope of this intergalactic alien enemy they’re fighting. That revelation changes the perception of what the true threat to earth is, effectively scaling it up and raising the stakes.
WoW does the same. It’s quite the natural evolution for any fantasy or science fiction story. Whether it’s Luke or Frodo who start out in humble surroundings, their journey keeps broadening out to the point where they end up fighting to save the entire world – whilst at the same time they’re doing it for The Shire or to save their father.
man don’t bother to explain this to people…cause they are still stuck at the
WOTLK STORY WAS THE BEST AND THAT’s ALL MY FRIENDS
Everytime someone say WOW there always arthas and that is the end of wow
people playin wow are stuck at the nostalgia and past
I can tell you that even garosh story was for my taste better than arthas
Garroshs story was butchered however. They should have sticked with the Stonetalon Garrosh after he was so heavily praised rather than sticking to their original plot of “nah, he evil now”. Give the boy some character development to become the greatest Warchief the Horde had ever seen. Make Saurfang his right hand and replace Thrall as his father figure (Saurfang taught Garrosh during his time in Northrend way more than Thrall did in his entire lifetime with him)
Going to quote several people, because this is interesting.
Agree.
Exactly.
Why trying to redeem her in SL, when they could easily not villain bat her during BFA ?
I mean she had already got away in MoP.
Many Alliance players complained she should had been trialed along side Garrosh after MoP.
What the writers do in BFA ?
Yeah: “She was a villain. Ah Ah !”
In SL: "You need to understand her. ".
Me: *Baffled
It’s quite interesting this case.
There were two events, usually Horde players use: Camp Taraujo and the Dalaran event.
Frim WoWpedia:
In Camp Taraujo it seems from Alliance perspective, we don’t have access on Horde side that the civilians were allowed to escape, later on being killed by Quilboars. But the commander in charge got punished for it.
"General Hawthorne, who led the assault, had nonetheless ordered his men to give the townsfolk an opening in their defensive lines for the civilians to escape. "
“Following this there are those in the Horde that refers to Hawthorne as the “The Butcher of Taurajo” due to his actions being perceived as the intentional killing of civilians.”
“After some initial interactions with the adventurer, he sends them off to Fort Triumph and says he will travel there himself separately. After this, he is killed in the Horde quest The Butcher of Taurajo. His corpse was later retrieved and is found in Fort Triumph, being mourned by his widowed wife, Clarice Hawthorne.”
Here the character gets punished, even though he clearly, didn’t meant to kill civilians.
What about the cases for, Jaina Proudmoore and Vereesa Windrunner ?
All involved in Dalara events ?
To clarify where I am coming from, I think there’s two weights and two measurements here.
They either let got the 3 characters and explain why or they punish the 3 of them.
Nit punish one of them while letting the other 2 go.
Exactly my thoughts.
None should feel bad for playing what they want.
If that’s the case:
Why have two factions ?
Make it just one.
After all we are all the: “Champions of Azeroth”.
Unless they want to say in hidden lines, one route is a illusion while the other is the: “True path”.
Which if find extremely disingenuous.
That’s the main reason why I stay away from this expansion.
Going to watch this from a safe distance.
Very safe distance.
There’s also Paladin’s, Hunters, Shamans the list goes on …
Agree.
Unfortunately, the writers think she’s redeemable, apparently.
I wonder if it was a “he”.
As a Horde player who doesn’t play Alliance (highest character is a level 12 NE Druid), I agree.
Agree.
They could had gone that route, but they didn’t.
Now they say they regret killing him.
I am highly curious to see how much different will be Sylvania treatment compared to Garrosh.
I think that’s what they’re trying to do in Patch 9.1. Sylvannas is the end boss. If she is not killed, she’ll be put aside for a long time after this.
Personally, I like Sylvannas, and I liked her as a leader. But I do think they have ruined her with Shadowlands. Turning her into the big bad wasn’t really a good move imo.
Forgive me if I’ve missed something as I’m not really scrubbed up on my lore on this one. But if she’s killed, doesn’t that mean that her Soul would just end up going to Shadowlands anyway? Because technically killing her would be her Death in her Azeroth body (even though she’s already. Undead, she’s just tied to Azeroth)… and her Soul would just end up going to Arbiter, where I’ll stop elaborating to avoid spoilers.
You know… Someone might like pizza, others might not.
Its a personal taste and i really like them both because they annoy the alliance so much beside… Bowing them down
Now lets see how “horde” you are.
Yep, when he betrayed the horde back in MoP and back in BFA to aid the alliance… Such a glorious leader trait.
Nope, guldan wants to destroy everyone in this lore/game.
Me i just want the alliance gone and that is what WARcraft means from day 1. Humans Vs Orcs. If you want PEACEcraft when your precious faction has nowhere else to run that makes you hippocrite.
You say im wrong though, now you change it to “Its just different perspectives” in the end? Please
They didnt told you yet shes not dying?
Must have ruined your dreams
