Let's talk about DH

Actually made me chuckle, gj :+1:

They don’t care about PvP anyway, the game solely survives on PvE. Hence why they just don’t give a damn about balance, but what’s even more tragic is that DH is even trash in PvE since it doesn’t bring utilities except the 5% magic damage buff and that’s it. Their damage is much less than all other classes that doesn’t bring utilities as well so they just don’t get picked in PvE neither

The issue for PvE is bigger then that though.
Quite clear example, for pretty much everyone except blizzard, is that they need to nerf utility instead of dmg.
Aug evokers will continue be “mandatory” due to everything they bring.
Fire mage is uncapped dmg, not sure how the nerf hit them.
Shadow priest brings too much with mass dispel and soothe so even if they nerf the dmg they will still be meta.

If they even cared about balancing even in PvE they would either prune or give specs something equal so its not “cherry picking”.
In S1 when I played WW as main, it took over an hour to even get into a key which I had already done. Imagine if aug evokers existed back then.

Ah, I dont play the game apparently so… All these are false. :person_shrugging:

Nah, it’s impossible to balance pvp in a mmo like wow with so much variety in content. It’s not about competence

You’re right, the devs should get it over with and delete DH at last, it’s high time

You can’t fight the forum bias OP

Ppl still react to DH as if its BFA

Everybody uses the arguement of “DH is fine”, “DH was played in the AWC” . “I got 1800 easily with DH”.

The truth is people don’t want the class to be viable. You can sit for hours and argue with facts and statistics and be replied to with “Git gut” or “DH is fine”

No it isn’t.

DH is by far the most underwhelming melee in PvP in the entire game.

Defensive wise:

- You die to random tab targets when Blur is on CD
- You get knocked out of Darkness by half the specs in the game, or just die through it coz of bad RNG
- Netherwalk is in an awful talent spot so nobody plays it, even the R1 / Tournament players. If you do play it, you lose like 10-15% dmg
**- Rain from Above takes up an important talent slot, gets line of sighted and bugs out your whole UI **
- Vengeful retreat (Glimpse) requires you to perfectly read your opponent to receive roughly 1 to 1.5 seconds of CC immunity and 35% dmg reduction while ALSO not being able to hit the target

Offensive wise:

- You have a worthless talent (Mortal wounds) which is taking up 1 talent point for no reason. Other melees like Warrior and Windwalker have Mortal wounds effect on Mortal Strike and Rising Sun Kick baseline

- Your main damaging ability (Eye Beam) is a complete joke, gets stopped by micro CC and kicks EVERY SINGLE TIME
**- Your other main damaging ability (Blade dance/Death sweep in Meta) hits for 70-80k **
- You have no ability to finish off a target with, resulting in people living on 1-15% hp all the time
- The Hunt has over 20% dmg nerf since Season 1, so it can’t even break a Disc priest shield with its upfront dmg. Not to mention it gets shadowmelded all the time like a Chaos bolt
- All your dmg is healable much more easily than any other dps’s dmg

Spec isn’t threatening and is squishy. When you see DH with top dmg cause he dotted a bunch of pets, guess thats your arguement that “DH pumps”. Open up details and see that 55% of that dmg was on players.

Disagree? Go play DH into a BM hunter and see if you survive for over 2 minutes. If you are being tunneled you will die, or make your healer smoke 50 cigarretes to keep you alive with you dying in the end anyway

Go play DH into Mages and never connect and die from range
Go play DH into Rogues and be dead every Cheap shot go even if you pre-blur
Go play DH into melee cleaves that have much more defensives to trade and see if you can stay in the fight after Blur is on cd. You will also NEVER get an Eye Beam off with melees insta kicking you

Lowest melee representation.
R1 / Tournament DH players saying that same.

It’s very fun being dead every stun, being hard countered by some guy finding Wind Shear on the bars or any kind of root

But no, forum lords will continue to spew their bias and hate


Tbh dh is balanced, really good dmg and really insane cc compared to most of other melee and can be punished.

The issue is every single op spec can’t be punished cause they are too op, able to use stuff while in cc (so they never trinket or trinket offensive 100% of the time) they got a lot of defensive and/or insane self heal with 0 counterplay and insane mobility.

I wouldv’e said ape proof, but go on…

Or maybe because more people enjoy/main other specs compared to Dh? It’s not because the class is trash buddy.

maybe before

now if u attempt to cosplay a warrior as DH u will die or lose

I mean, you call anyone who do not agree with you bias so it kinda lost its meaning :person_shrugging:

So where in the statistics are they the lowest melee represented? Remember, you said lowest, not low.
As far as I can see, frost dk, outlaw rogue and assa rogue is less represented.

As a Class?

What do you do if DH isn’t in a good state? Reroll to a different class?

What do you do if Outlaw or Assa are less played? Play your God tier SSS+++ Sub spec?

What do you do as Frost dk if it isn’t great? Play your S tier Unholy dk?

Remember these alternative specs have 80% of the same buttons, only difference is how you do damage, your CC and defensives are pretty much the same

Oh god, please no, dont use “class” as the sole reason why something can be lower… Then they can just delete holy priest since they still have shadow priest…

I will never understand why people always try to use whatever means to further their goals. I dont care if you have 5000 different specs thats better then 1 in one class. If that spec is less represented then that means that spec is the lowest represented melee and nothing else.

Actually idiotic to go around using “you can just play that spec which you hate no worries!”
Literally making it so other specs in one class represents the entire class. :exploding_head:

Alright guys, because subs are so good they dont have to do anything for the other 2 specs because they are higher represented! Wooooooooo.

I can smell the bias from you.

“I dont have bias because xxx but you have bias because of xxx and you have hate because of xxx and I have none of it because of xxx”.

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What bias

Theres literally Assa rogue mains complaining about Sub rogue being OP and making their spec less viable by default, its spec cannibalization

but sure DH is fine

I got my 2.4 over a month ago and was like #24 in the Elite bracket

Now im #28

this isnt a brag, this is a problem

it means only 4-5 more people managed to break 2.4 in over a month

when i got 2.4 on my destro warlock i was like #32

now im like #60 or 70 idk

and destro isnt even good in shuffle in this meta compared to many other specs

Its been a while since ive had someone who uses one spec as an excuse why other 2 specs can be worse and be fine with it because it means they are not lower represented.

If you werent bias you would look at specs instead of class for your “goals”.

I dont care about your achievements and I dont care about what other people got either. I look through spec statistics and thats it. If you have issues with people not agreeing with you, you might just want to start spamming that ignore button.

yes thats also part of statistics u donut

when only 4 new players can reach 2.4 in an entire month on a spec it means the spec struggles to push rating

i dont have issues with people not agreeing with me

i have issues with ignorant people

by your logic if something is trash, but a few more things are more trash, that doesnt make the first thing trash

by this logic slapping a person hard is ok coz its not a punch

You almost got me with the topic headline

Didn’t expect to reach a thread about DHs being in need of any kind of buff, when they are in a pretty strong spot, are pretty oppressive damage wise, and have a pretty hefty toolkit

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Can be seen as both class and spec. If you dont actually say it yourself who do you believe people will look at? What you believe in your own mind only?
Uhuh, because I mean class in my head it means people will read it aswell.

You dont want to use spec statistics since that would make you look worse.

It means havoc might not be at its best form no, but it also does not excuse for outlaw/assa to be lower represented because sub exist, or frost dk because unholy exist.

You have, you call people bias if they dont agree with you even when its clear its not.
Im not even sure which bias ive even had since I dont hate any spec (except arms in certain ways) but you love to use that word regardless what anyone elses say. But you hate being called it yourself and start giving excuses why you are not.

I have issues with people who only use specific information to try to prove something. Because thats all they can.

No, thats your logic.
You believe its perfectly fine for outlaw and assa to be as they are because sub exist, so they can just change spec.
You believe frost dk is perfectly fine because they can just change to unholy.
You are the one who are calling out bad stuff to be good because of another spec in that class.

You do not have logic.

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At this point somebody can tell you blood is red and water is a liquid and you’re gonna be the " ACTUALLY, NOT EXACTLY " guy lmao

  • never played DH in his life
  • argues with obvious statistics
  • reached first Duelist as Ret in his life during Ret rework
  • takes 15 minutes to write 1 reply to truth with nonsense

go next man

i didnt write anything about rets being squishy before the rework. Rets were paper and had bubble forced first 10 seconds of the game coz other defensives were crap

Rets were not good, and it was true. Didn’t argue with that. Why? Because I play literally every class in the game outside of Rogues and DK

now lets hand the mic over to Mr. Statistic professor who has to provide their educated opinion on a class that has received only nerfs or nothing every couple of months


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I cant argue with this guy so lets use something against him!

Oh my god, I cant, I cant, you are perfectly making it clear how insanely bias you are :clap:
“takes 15minutes to write 1 reply to truth with nonsense”
Thats a DH brain for you that always try to deflect.

Im so sorry you are trying to take everything you can now to try to prove you are right. Im so sorry you cant handle it.
But go ahead and try to argue specs is the best and godlike because one spec in it is

Im not even sure why you started to bring up rets when I dont care? Its like “I saw you played ret, you have a ret as your character so it means I should bring up something irrelevant”.
Atleast you keep showing your bias ways.
Goodluck though! Even though most what ive read from you on this forum shines with bias and non-understanding! :+1:

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