Well that much is obvious. What isn’t obvious is whether the sarcasm is trying to pull people towards less levels or more levels, which neatly sums up the absurdity of the current situation as well as this argument. I am genuinely shocked that there are so many people who just don’t get this, but I will happily explain or have my mind changed.
it isn’t and a point of xp isn’t either because you gather points of xp to get to the next level in the same way you gather levels to get to the current maximum level you don’t need to be rewarded for every single little thing you do in the game god this community is full of snowflakes no wonder the devs can’t do a proper job at managing it
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See, this is why levelling sucks. Instead of the goal being that next level, the goal is max level, and everything in between fails to matter to anybody. As a result, levelling becomes a ~60 hour slog instead of a ~250 hour progressing adventure, because in your mind getting a bag of XP is now as rewarding as getting a level. This is a colossal failure of design.
Anyway, it is now clear where your sarcasm was pulling, so there’s that.
how the *(#%^! is changing the amount of levels we have to a number all the snowflakes can actually comprehend gonna make the goal not max level? this isn’t 2006 the goal has always been max level after like TBC which is also why they brough heirlooms in WoTLK they understood that and it has been the case ever since the adventure is still there you just think it isn’t because you’ve played the game for a long time and have most likely leveled many characters until now of course you’re gonna find it boring old content died after the MoP stat squish and with Legion one it completely died because they even removed Tier set bonuses etc.
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No, it really isn’t there. There are dozens of vanilla developers who tried the game after 14 years of not looking at it, and every single one of them hated it because they felt compelled to rush to max level and didn’t feel anything when they levelled up, so there.
Remember those 5% bars on the XP bar in the default UI?
Blizzard have reduced getting a level to getting one of those. A congratulations is in order, I believe.
OBVIOUSLY because the game isn’t 1-60 now it isn’t just azeroth if you want that you can go play classic with all the snowflakes very soon retail has lots of expansions and LOTS OF CONTENT that people have already done while the expansion was current of course in vanilla the adventure will be big because that’s all there is to it but as more content gets added everyone will simply move to the newest content WHICH SURPRISE SHOCKER I KNOW in retail is the max level nobody is gonna be stuck in the old world running around in stranglethorn for 3159139 hrs when they could be max level doing m+/raids/pvp/whatever alongside 99% of the community
At least there are two :
- Less unnecessary ilvl growth before max level. We just had a stat squish and we’re already at 200k+ hp as dps. Less levels would mean less leveling ilvl and allow you to come back at max level to more readable values. There’s no doubt by the end of this expansion we’ll reach the 100.000+ damages, which isn’t a good start for the next.
- More time spend within a level allow or more content to be cattered for that level. If they do it right they may even take away some of the scaling from leveling as you wouldn’t just outlevel zones in a matter of minutes like in legion. Something i’d look forward to would be world scaling but when you start a zone it doesn’t scale anymore, and you progress through that zone and then look for a new one which will start at your current level and so on.
I really think that along other changes this could be great for the game. More talents, more spells and i guess something in between, like an old school talent tree you could upgrade as you level up but with most of the powerfull ones on the current talent tree. (Major and Minor talent points ?)
Just taking out half of the levels and call it a day wouldn’t have any meaning. But a level squish is the opportunity to do so much more and i hope they’ll do it right.
Imho one of the next expansion main goal is to appeal to classic players. To tell them “Look the game is different now, we’re fixing it won’t you give it a try ?” and it really feels like a leveling rework would serve this purpose.
I see what you did there
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Well…this isn’t a guarantee and the ilvl while leveling isn’t the issue here. As long as we still gain most ilvls while being max-level (newly dinged is what, 250 ish?) this will remain a recurring issue regardless of our max-level. Stop the unneeded ilvl inflation at max-level.
So this argument has actually nothing to do with leveling or the max-level we get.
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Squishing the levels does not imply fixing this problem, that is correct, but fixing this problem has squishing the levels are a prerequisite.
You cannot keep the numbers high enough at level 1 and low enough at level 120 and simultaneously give a noticeable bump in gear level for each of the 120 levels. In the current case, we’ve got armour values for 10 levels being literally 1 on every single piece, and simultaneously we’ve got it being almost 10000 at max level. Same with the health pools - in the start it’s near 60 and really shouldn’t go below that, whereas in level 120 it easily reaches 400k, which is way too much.
These insane numbers are a consequence of the first item level squish, which went reasonably well, and the second one, which did not. The first one went well because it didn’t have to go as far as the second one. The second squish was asked to solve an impossible task.
Up to wotlk content iirc the ilvl scaling is similar to the lvl progression (65ilvl for a lvl 60 item right ?) but then it just increase until 280ilvl questing gear at lvl 120.
With a similar ilvl growth than vanilla we would only have 125ilvl at lvl 120, which means a 280ilvl questing item has 103% increased stats compared to what it could have been with a constant ilvl progression. This stat increase translate into a much bigger dps increase (100% more crit, haste, versatility and mastery on top of 100% raw dps increase)
That’s where the issue lie. There’s an issue with raid tier ilvl inflation, but the fact we start higher is another. Raid gear is also to blame here but is that really so important that a player replace his raid gear by quest greens before max level ?
I’m not saying this is the only issue at hand when it comes to inflation. But it’s one aspect that could be dealed with through level squish.
This presupposes that high hp bars are somehow a bad thing. Why? I honestly don’t feel any different whether my character has 100 hp with 10 heals or 100k hp with 10k heals. And as Trivale pointed out, a huge chunk of our ilvl comes at level cap. 250 for 1-120, then 150 extra at 120 alone (and it’s only 8.2). Stat scaling is a stat squish issue anyway, they already pulled off several stat squishes without a level squish.
That is again, a discussion about scaling, not about the level squish. I’m not sure what you mean about Legion, you didn’t outlevel zones within a matter of minutes, all Legion zones scaled betwen 100-110. And the BfA prepatch applied the same system to the old expansions so you didn’t outlevel them within minutes either.
All of the things you mentioned - talent revamp, more spells, etc. - are unrelated to a level squish. And a level squish isn’t a good start to any of these, since a level squish is not a requirement for any of these or other improvements they could make. They revamped talent trees in MoP without squishing 1-85, they can revamp talents without squishing levels now. And the best way to appeal to Classic players is with Classic, not by bringing back arbitrary points by forcing people to dump 3 talent points into increasing the Armor value of my items by 3/6/10% or some such bloated cookie cutter filler.
It’s all about in what way you ask question.
What sounds better: 100 hours to get to 120 level or 100 hours to get to 60 level?
What sounds better: 1 new ability after 10 levels or 1 new ability after 1 level?
What sounds better: 2 hours to get from 1 to 20 level, or 2 hours to get from 1 to 5 level?
For me - I don’t like that idea. But I don’t make alts and I play one character since end of Burning Crusade. Maybe it’s different for “alotoholicis”. But is it? Blizzard doesn’t tell what is going with level squisch. There is no information, except reduce levels. Nothing about time or world. For me it feels just like psychological way to make an impression, that levels means something, and it is easier to get to max level. Is it? We don’t know.
Getting higher stats when everything around you gets higher stats, but your items do not get higher stats, is not a reward. It is a punishment. There is no escaping that fact if you think about what happens for a quarter of a second. However, if all you care for is higher stats, may I recommend my addon https://wow.curseforge.com/projects/squishme
I promise you can give yourself 55 googol HP if that is truly your desire. The sky is the limit.
Of course we both know that that is nothing more than an illusion. It doesn’t actually do anything. Thus, in the current version of WoW, getting higher numbers is not a reward. In fact, in absolute terms, levelling up makes you weaker. The same mob will grow assuming your item level stays appropriate for your new level, but it does not - it falls behind.
I strongly believe that character levels should reflect your inherent power as a character. Getting a pot of gold for gaining a level implies that an NPC directly sees and understands your level while you’re in the middle of Dire Maul. I cannot imagine anything more contrived.
You can indeed, but it does not go far enough.
It is a colossal failure of Blizzard’s core principles as a company, one of which is “play fair”.
Character boosting has no place in World of Warcraft and, in fact, attempting to boost a character using exploits or a boosting website will get you a 1-way ticket out of the game and a whack with the banhammer. Now, tell me… why is Blizzard allowed to sell you what others are not?
Yes indeed, we can do this because of scaling, but as we previously discussed the scaling comes with a far greater set of issues itself. The only way we can solve both the scaling issues and the “getting stuck into a zone” issues at the same time is through a level squish. This is why Blizzard chose 60 levels in the first place. It was a deliberate choice with very strong reasons behind it, and while the game can tolerate some expansion to this, it cannot tolerate where we are today.
The stat squish issue is connected to the level squish issue. If you think you should get more health, damage, mana, armour etc. as you level up - which you should - then having too many levels will cause your stats to grow too much. It’s essentially a multiplication problems in simple terms.
That is fair enough, and it is definitely a discussion I am willing to entertain. 
Mostly about leveling in legion before the 7.3 implementation of scaling in the old content. Legion leveling was a joke, where one of the most efficient way to levelup was to solo dungeons. Scaling, although it has its own issues, allows you to complete a zone without ever outleveling it (as long as you stay within the limits of the expansion) and allow you to start a zone whenever you want it.
A level squish would mean more time spend for each level, which along with a few tweaks would allow Blizzard to get rid of some scaling issues or scaling altogether.
Overall my point is just that 120 lvl and 280ilvl put a lot of dead weight on the gearing system. I’ll just quote my other reply :
Once again to me level squish isn’t only about reducing level, as many pointed out before (and i think so did you) it would be pointless on its own. To me it is an opportunity to rework the leveling process and caracter progression.
I doubt Blizzard would waste ressources on such project just for the sake of “look you’re llv60 now, ARE YOU NOT ENTERTAINED ?”
I didn’t get a survey, probably blizzard discriminating me again :))
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Squish it to level 60, make everyone start from lvl 1, keep your collections and achievements and remove heirlooms.
And do it right this time ![:slight_smile:](https://d1bg94bbsh66ji.cloudfront.net/en/wow/images/emoji/twitter/slight_smile.png?v=6" ":slight_smile:")
Every squish and scaling have been disatrous for the game ! Everything is broken to the core from leveling to questing passing to pvp , etc . A level squish will not resolve the problems that the game has right now it will create new ones ! IMO all this scaling and squishing is their attempt to create wow mobile , i could be wrong .
It seems we will end up with a game with a binary system !
One thing ´s sure more ppl will leave the game if this is put forward !
All these years there were lots of mmos that will kill wow and i always said only Blizzard can kill wow and sadly that´s happening !
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I prefer to stay like this to build up your character every expansion, it feels weird if you go back to 80? You wake up and it was just a dream?
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At the moment all we can do is speculate but I hope they release more information about how they are going to go about a level squish.
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Because it is a BAD idea. What you want it turn WoW into OV - NO THANK YOU