Blizzard even stated that LFR is required in the game since without it a majority of the players would not experience the raiding content.
Any other “thing”? I was under the impression more players level their characters than any other thing in the game.
Yes yes, I know why they say it’s needed, tyvm. I was asking how he knows that there is, and I quote “a small but very vocal minority of raiders are stuck in the past”. I get the pro and con LFR argument, I simply find claims of minorities and majorities from some random on the internet disgusting when they don’t have a source to back their claims. I want to know how he counted the LFR opponents, and more so how he got in their heads and knows why they oppose it. His statement implies he somehow knows this to be a fact.
Timegated lfr is intended to make people stay longer, but for me it has the opposite effect. in Cata and mop i simply quit the game because i couldnt be bothered waiting about 2 months to see the end of the raid i started. In WoD i started playing late so i could do everything without having to wait. And well in legion it made me quit as well halfway trough the burning throne because i couldnt be bothered to wait sucha long time.
Can’t see myself stay until the end of bfa if they timegate so heavily again.
As others said lfr is basicly just sight seeing. So why is the most simplistic version of the raid with crappy loot so late .
After years i finally managed to find an active guild on my server that actually does stuff together, so i guess i might just see it the normal way this time.
Well the source is Blizzard, if majority of the players in the game would not see the content without it than I guess how those people to which the doors of the raiding got open now due to its introduction are for it and the some percentage of the playerbase is only against it. Majority of the subscribers outweigh those. Without it in the game Blizzard would have less reasons to focus on the production of the raiding content and for spending a lot of its resources on it.
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Well the only place I ever hear people complaining about LFR are the same 10 accounts or so on this forum. I don’t hear anyone in game complaining about it and I do a few runs of heroic in voice chat every week on different toons. Not once do I hear people saying we need to get rid of LFR, or LFR is bad for the game.
Blizards own statistics which they have repeated several times would suggest people like you are a minority in the game. Even among raiders you are a minority because most I know raiding heroic are quite happy to run 4th and 5th alts through LFR, and to hop in there and pick up runes, satchels, and gear for scrap.
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I think Blizzard are probably the only ones who have any statistics on LFR participation. Keeping it in the game would indicate it has a large enough uptake to be worth while as opposed to other things that have been introduced for only one expansion.
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It is at most an educated guess from Blizzard, most certainly not a fact though, right? And with all due respect, I doubt even Blizzard can actually know what is in people’s heads to back the second part of that guy’s claim, specifically “are stuck in the past and it hurts their epeen that others get to see the content as well”. You know, the part for which I asked him about his sources, since he seems so confident.
There are lots of channels where the subject pops up periodically, and I can safely say I saw thousands of complaints about it over the years, with various degrees of approval. In the same way, I saw thousands of people backing it, also with various degrees of approval.
This is what you based such sweeping statement on? It seems weak, mate. This is the very definition of “anecdotal”, “selection bias” and so on, certainly nothing to base a claim about minorities and majorities, and even less so to act like the forum psychologist.
Do tell, people like me? How exactly would that be?
And where are these statistics? Can you show any?
I’m sure you are right about this one, you were bound to be right about something. There must be very few non-raiders among raiders.
But besides personally attacking me for some assumed crap about me (which is likely totally wrong already), do you actually have any hard proof of minorities and majorities, and how do you know what they think? You seem to reply over and over and bring up more of the same.
At the very least they created an expectation already and there is no way they can reasonably just “delete LFR” now and hope for the best. But I don’t care about that part, I want to know from that guy how he knows, and I quote again, “It is only divisive in so far as a small but very vocal minority of raiders are stuck in the past and it hurts their epeen that others get to see the content as well.”
That’s all. I want to know these things:
- how he counts minorities and majorities, based on what.
- how he knows what others think.
No I don’t think that Blizzard base those things on the wild guess, but how it actually uses the tools which it has on its disposal ( the metrics ) to see that the raiding activity from the players on the various accounts got increased over time due to its introduction. And how it also probably knows from that how many of them experienced the raiding content before.
And I agree with you, which is why I said “educated guess” and not “wild guess”. They have engagement metrics, based on which they more or less try to extrapolate other things. But educated guesses, while not being wild guesses, are still not facts, are they?
I think a week between opening the different wings is enough.
It used to be that way, I’m not sure why they changed it.
How its not a fact if they can see from those what percentage of the playerbase raids, those tools cant show things in the wrong way ? Blizzard knows the number of its subscribers and the number of the raiders and based on that than makes its decisions regarding the content.
Ok, it’s pretty simple. For example, 100% of players level up their characters. Do 100% of players like leveling up characters?
There is a disconnect between engagement metrics with a feature and gauging opinion on that particular feature. This is where the educated guesses start.
Ok now I got it what you mean, still that doesn’t change the fact that the number of the players which raid vastly got increased since introduction of the LFR to the game.
I’m not disputing any of that.
You came into the discussion at some point, but I’m not sure you actually followed it. I don’t have a problem with LFR and can’t claim to know how many players like it and hate it. All I know for a fact is that it’s one of the features of the game that comes into question more often than others.
What I am firmly against is posts like this:
… and that is because this post practically tries to insert itself as a fact. So this discussion is essentially me asking this guy how he knows it’s “a tiny minority”, and how he knows how they think, and him dodging the question. Probably because he cannot possibly back such a claim.
All you are doing is for some weird reason defending this kind of non-reasoning by arguing in favor of a position I’m not arguing against, but which is irrelevant to this.
I already explained my logic behind the LFR in the game as it has Punny, and this is the only thing which makes sense to me :
Lfr is basically all you have done so far? 8/8 uldir lfr cleared. Lol?
Yes, but it holds no relevance to me how many players participate in LFR, and since you replied to me I assumed you want to reply to my argument, not something I am neither arguing in favor or against.
But is the reply to your argument, before the introduction of the LFR majority of the subscribers did not had a chance to experience the raiding content, and its only logical that those people which now have the chance to experience it thanks to introduction would be because of it for it, and how they outweigh the percentage of the players which are against it. That’s simple logic for you.
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Actually, not only it’s not logical, but it just was disproven exactly 2 posts up from yours. 
Read what Sithral said in reply to someone else, “Lfr is basically all you have done so far? 8/8 uldir lfr cleared. Lol?”, and the someone else having said “Just remove LFR cause it’s 1 of the worst features in the game.”
It’s not as simple as it seems, especially in a game where the reward structure is also a factor.
And do you think that the players which are doing only LFR care about those comments ? I don’t think so, their perception of the LFR is that its a real raiding for them. They don’t have the will or time to engage in other difficulties if they aren’t doing them, and without it they wouldn’t experience the raiding.