And do you think that the players which are doing only LFR care about those comments ? I don’t think so, their perception of the LFR is that its a real raiding for them. They don’t have the will or time to engage in other difficulties if they aren’t doing them, and without it they wouldn’t experience the raiding.
I don’t know, that’s the whole point. Good luck proving what an arbitrary group of people thinks though. What I can notice is how someone that only did LFR expressed the opinion that LFR is, and I quote, “1 of the worst features in the game”. Is he someone that is representative for a minority, majority? I don’t know. But he does showcase why trying to equate engagement into something with pleasure derived from engaging into something is a really poor approach.
Edit: I would also mention that trying to make an argument by bringing up minorities and majorities is as a rule of thumb a poor thing to do and shows the lack of conviction someone has in their own opinions.
It is fact, here are some stats on MMO Champion from MOP
https: //www.mmo-champion . com/content/3984-armory-stats-siege-of-orgrimmar-progression-blue-tweets-dlc-439
51.2% Killed Garosh in LFR
18.1% Killed Garosh in Flex
13.3% Killed Garosh in Normal
0.8% Killed Garosh in Heroic
BTW remove the spaces after champion and before com to use the link.
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if it was essential for the survival of the game then how come, when the game was at its most played the game didn’t have it? and instead LFR came in when the game was (and still is) on its lower sub numbers?
And how does that relate to how many players like it? And how did you infer that “It is only divisive in so far as a small but very vocal minority of raiders are stuck in the past and it hurts their epeen that others get to see the content as well”? How do you know what the opponents think? How do you count, based on that, the opponents of LFR?
This is the crap you wrote mate, this is what I’m asking you to back up.
It is very obvious from the statistics that people like you are a vocal minority in the game. The drop off rate to Heroic (Old Normal) is less than 1 in 7 WOW players clearing it.
While 1 in 2 WOW players cleared LFR.
It is clear that they certainly like LFR a lot more than raiding.
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You claimed that before. Define people like me. This will be fun.
And? How do you infer how many players like it?
Because it has very high participation levels.
People who derive their in-game epeen from looking down on the content and gear of other players. What is referred to as being elitist.
How do you know they like it? 100% of players level up, can you say 100% like leveling? It’s a stupid argument.
I don’t like locking down content. Gear is a different matter.
I don’t know what is being referred to as being elitist. I only know what elitist means: either someone supporting the rule of society by an elite, which I do not support, or the conscience of being part of an elite, which I am not.
I mean I cleared LFR, Purely because it offers 1k gold and runes worth 4k gold or so. 
and aside from that its an easy way to gear an alt so yeah.
Blizzard’s rewarding LFR greatly for a reason we all know.
So it is a simple matter that you derive your in game epeen from gear and resent “casuals” getting gear. Lovely.
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Well the leveling is part of the game which is for the players unavoidable. But the LFR is not something which players need to do if they don’t have any interest in the raiding activity, especially now when they have other sources in the game from which they can obtain equally good gear and better. A lot of the players can go directly to the other modes without ever going into the LFR if they don’t like it to. And yet the participation is high for LFR through all those years since its introduction, and higher than that of the other raiding modes. I think how that fact speaks a lot for itself, don’t you think ?
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I don’t have ingame epeen, whatever that means.
No, not really. I am a casual too. I like the game when there is a progression system that has a rough ratio between content difficulty and reward quality.
BTW, why do you make this about me and my personal preferences, instead of trying to make an actual argument for your minorities and majorities, and how you know what others think?
Fair enough, do you think everyone that does island expeditions (avoidable) likes doing island expeditions? Everyone doing warfronts loves doing warfronts, everyone that used to do Ashran loved Ashran, and so on? It doesn’t change how stupid that argument is.
His statistic is from MoP though. 
We have no idea if now these proportions aren’t entirely different.
It can just as well speak to how it’s easier. Something that guarantees success is bound to have higher kill ratios that something that doesn’t. Besides, as I told you three times before, I do not contest that LFR is popular. Hell, I don’t even contest that a large number of people (no idea if a minority or majority though) like it, nor that it’s existence in the game cannot be stopped at this point. I contest badly formulated arguments, such as ones that invent with no possible backup minorities and majorities, appeal to populism, or try to attack someone’s character instead of someone’s argument. Basically, what this Ignatious individual keeps doing. He represents, as far as I am concerned, the lowest form of debate possible.
You asked for statistics, I gave you statistics. 51% of players went into LFR in MOP when they didn’t “have to”. The majority of these chose not to raid higher difficulties.
You can only assume that from the participation levels they were getting something they liked out of it, be it gold, gear, runes, or just seeing the raid.
I asked to know how you know how many players like something. That is what you claimed. Not how many players do something. It would be really helpful if you would stop pretending you don’t understand the difference.
I also asked how you knew what opponents of LFR think.
No, I can’t assume anything like that. There are many situations where players contest the content they do.
Island expeditions are not avoidable since Blizzard stated how they offer the best source for azerite points over the week.
Warfronts still offer for a lot of the players some of the best gear in the game, LFR doesn’t. So again this comparison doesn’t work.
Its irrelevant is the content easier and harder. What’s relevant tho is how the players have other options in the game if they hate LFR, they aren’t forced to do it, and they don’t miss on the gear if they don’t do it, and how they have other modes in which they can experience the raiding content to, and how the LFR is for them entirely skippable now and still that the participation in it is high.
I fear we’ve somewhat derailed the topic. Which is the timegating of the wings.
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Oh come on… they are only unavoidable for who makes a goal of making the highest quantity of azerite possible, which most certainly is not everyone. Last I played, I was doing just fine ingame without doing island expeditions myself (didn’t like them). But when I was close to a new trait ring, I did that weekly, that didn’t make me like them.
You can apply it to literally any feature in the game, Lia. People will do stuff for rewards in general, but our goals diverge as much as each of us are different. When rewards are multipurpose, you might find that someone does LFR because they love it, someone might do it because they want the rewards so they can go farm old raids, someone else might do it because they want to test their potency on the damage meter, someone else might do it for some reason we can’t figure out.
Obviously I agree with you in that the better the rewards, the higher the participation, so in Warfronts more players will go based on the reward and not because they like it, but it doesn’t change the principle that when a reward is involved, you cannot make any kind of judgement of how much someone likes a feature.
It’s perfectly relevant. No matter how much X loves mythic raiding, if X is incapable of doing it he won’t be recorded as participation. The participation for anything that doesn’t guarantee success will, by nature, exclude some players. Something that is guaranteed, on the other hand, will not.
As a matter of fact, this argument about raiding is to me as if someone would claim that players love mythic +2 dungeons, because clearly they are the most played mythic+ dungeons, but hate mythic +25, because clearly nobody is doing them. Doesn’t that sound a bit… idk, wrong?
You are perfectly right Puny, my bad.
I think they timegate them for two weeks and not one week to give a chance to the average raiders to see the raid in their preferred difficulty before providing the failproof difficulty. I think one week didn’t give enough time for them, it just enabled the top raiders to finish, not the average ones.
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I’m not saying how you can’t do fine in the game without doing them, what I’m saying however is that they are probably the best source of azerite points for the week in comparison to the time required to do them in the game. So ofc the players which don’t have a lot of the time to play the game will do them rather than the other activities which require more time for the overall benefit.
I was speaking about the current LFR content, if people don’t like it they have plenty of other easy enough content from which they can get equal gear, and also they can test their dps elsewhere they don’t need to do it in LFR. And this expansion doesn’t have good looking tier sets for which people would go into the LFR, and even if it would have the people which would go for them just like those which are going there for gold or runes would be counted as occasional participants and not as someone who is regularly doing that mode.
Most people tend to like more the content in which they can participate than the one in which they can’t or we can say how they prefer to do it in the game, so if you would ask them would they be for such content in the game they would probably say yes on that question, they wouldn’t tell you how it should be removed.
How do you know that mythic +2 dungeons are most played in the game ? And the mythic dungeons are all the same more or less, or the idea behind them, they are all timed runs for which you need organized groups to participate in them, the players which wouldn’t have interest for them no matter are they +2 or +10 would obviously not participate in them if they don’t like them or if they wouldn’t be able through the progression in them get some of the best gear in the game which LFR doesn’t offer. The LFR is different from organized raiding in the sense how the players don’t need to have a lot of the time to participate in it, and it differs in that from the other raiding modes. I think how’s that just wrong comparison.
Let’s stop this here. As Puny said this has gone off topic.