Enjoy your no flying shard then.
It isn’t about climbing something because it exists and doesn’t have a reward.
I remember WoD had these chests hidden behind jumping puzzles. They were quite fun. But it’s also just that you can hide off areas of the map until players pick up some quest that transports them and things like that, which rewards players with more exploration. Can’t do that if you have flying.
I will never, ever forget moments like fighting my way into Winterspring or glitching my way into Hyjal in Classic. They were some of the best moments I’ve ever had in this game, and any moments like that have been taken from me.
This problem is about the sense of world, the exploration, and the achievement of overcoming a challenge to enhance both. There is no gear reward here, there’s more world. The minute you allow me to fly into Hyjal, you’ve ruined it.
The comment, which is snide I admit, is about the fact that you simply do not understand that it isn’t fun to artificially limit yourself. A game is supposed to present challenges and expect you to overcome them instead of just handing out cheat codes.
You cannot get the thrill of completing a jumping puzzle or exploring a new landmass with clever navigation while flying exists. The best feeling you can get is basically “oh wow I really crippled myself right here. That felt real great.”
It’s kind of like if there was a teleporter to the top of Mount Everest. Kindda takes the shine off climbing it a bit.
No. No, they haven’t.
When people said “oh my god the RNG can we just have vendors for everything please” Blizzard did not listen to that. Instead they listened to the motivation behind it, which is that they wanted more agency and they wanted the items to feel cool and unique again.
They read between the lines. They did not do what the community asked for, they did what the community really wanted.
The playerbase also never told them that it’d be a good idea to add soulbinds or covenants. That is just Blizzard reading between the lines when people say that choices are meaningless and we lack agency.
And now people are telling Blizzard to remove the covenant abilities because it’ll cause imbalance, and Blizzard just will not listen.
They’re not literally doing what the community told them to, which was my claim. They are listening, though, which is also what I claimed.
EDIT: It’s the same thing with the GCD change. Blizzard will not roll it back no matter how much the community asks. They will read between the lines and figure out in which cases the GCD feels bad and try to solve it some other way.
I like what they’re doing in Shadowlands, but they’re definitely not just taking people’s suggestions.
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Not-flying ruined Silvermoon for me.
And Argus
And Isle of Thunder
And whatever else still dont have flying 
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They haven’t been taken from you though. Classic is but a click away.
Sometimes I genuinely wonder what I’ve done to deserve getting a comment like that.
I said moments like that. I already had that particular moment, I want more moments like it.
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You can have them on retail too. With the Pathfinder, you have two patches to enjoy clever exploration without flying. I made it to top of Dazar’alor on the launch day, got to highest points of both Zandalar and Kul Tiras and in other places most people couldn’t by using toys, glider and other methods to explore and take screenies of cool areas before 8.2.
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Is that present tense? Sure looks like present tense.
Your argument is invalid.
Yes some people went for them and others didn’t because regardless of them existing people are all different and not everyone will climb something or go for something because it is there.
I fully understood some asking for an achievement for doing the treasure while flying was not active. It was also a period before DHs who are kings of gliding about.
WoD is actually the perfect example of how not everyone will do something just because it was there. Even in an expansion where they tried to not give us flying people still did not all go and do those puzzles. It’s something that either appeals to people or it doesn’t.
Flying is so rewarding if you like flying. Obviously those that don’t like flying are never going to enjoy it or feel the same way.
When BfA came out I definitely did not feel they listened to. It’s the same for some this time around. The playerbase will never speak with one voice and is played by a lot of different types of players.
This time I most certainly feel listened to and Blizzard themselves have admitted they are trying to listen, within reason of course.
Blizzard is even listening about Covenants. They want to make it a choice you are tied in to which will be a chore to change, however if it really proves that it’s not working out then they will make it so we can switch easily.
They aren’t going to react to everything players don’t like. They clearly can’t make everyone happy either.
You enjoy those moments for half of the expansion, people who enjoy flying enjoy it for the other half. I really don’t see what’s so dificult to understand here.
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We usually have a guildies on DHs who will see how far up things they can get. They climbed up the Kings Rest Pyramid, various mountains etc. They also do it in non flying zones ofc and raids/dungeons etc. There was another load of shenanighans on monks at one stage. I don’t get involved 
I have climbed up all sorts of stuff to kill time during break timers in raids or waiting for people in dungeons. I don’t get any double jumpy stuff though as a paladin xD
Yep, it’s a fun thing to do. Though DHs are easy mode. Doing it as a DK felt a lot more rewarding to me. xD
I’ve always loved reaching places most other players couldn’t.
I understand it perfectly fine.
I just think it’s stupid. 
Okay, so let’s look at the two cases.
Case 1) We don’t have flying. People who don’t want to explore can choose not to do so. People who do like to explore can choose to do so.
Case 2) We do have flying. People who don’t want to explore can choose not to do so. People who do have the whole experience spoiled.
Now, I actually got one of these great experiences in patch 8.0 when I discovered Atal’dazar. My jaw literally hit the floor, even though I’d already seen it in trailers and even played it once on alpha. It just gets me when I go through the mountains and the jungle and get there.
Anyone playing the game after flying has been added got robbed of that experience.
How is flying rewarding? Don’t you mean getting flying is rewarding? Flying is just a means of transportation.
I know what you’re getting at and I appreciate trying to move on.
My point is simply that there are two kinds of “listened to”.
In BfA Blizzard just didn’t even implement anything to get feedback on it. They didn’t hear anything at all.
In Shadowlands, they’re reading between the lines and taking feedback, but they are giving their own spin on it anyway. The community is not driving the game design - merely inspiring it. That’s what I mean.
In neither case are they doing what the community tells them to. And I like that. I’d be extremely unhappy if they just put all the gear on vendors because the community told them to.
I’m extremely happy that Blizzard didn’t just hear “No titanforging please” and made us all get the full gearset in 4 weeks and then gear-cap us. Instead they read between the lines and saw that people wanted lower droprates. It’s a perfect read. Nobody is complaining about it, loads of people are happy about it, but very few asked for it.
I know, right? It’s great.
Nobody has told Blizzard to make covenants hard to change, but they want it to be because they feel it will enhance our characters’ individuality and give us choices, thereby enhancing the RPG element of the game significantly - and a lot of people are definitely seeing the value in this.
But they know, like the vanilla devs did, that there’s a problem here. Won’t go over it, we all know what it is. But they’re gonna try, and I love them for it.
And I think that wanting to remove something many people enjoy for your own selfish reasons is even more stupid.
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And I think you wanting to keep something in the game for your selfish reasons when many people want it gone is a lot lot more stupid. And yes, there are more than you think, clearly. A lot more.
We could keep going like this forever, but frankly I think it’s stupid. Good day!
If you can’t handle a reasonable compromise, then you’re just pathetic. Fortunately, Blizzard didn’t cave in to people like you. You want a no-flying game, go play Classic.
At least we agree on something. Good night.
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A reasonable compromise? What, you think a good compromise to the issue is to have people grind a bunch of soul-crushingly boring timegated reputations and then have the game’s sense of world ripped out?
It’s not a reasonable compromise at all - it makes the experience terrible for both sides.
There’s an easy solution for that. Either remove Pathfinder part 2 and automatically unlock flying upon patch release, or make it not require reps but a questline to complete.
Honestly, that would be an improvement for both sides. Unfortunately for me, it’d be an improvement that takes us closer to your side of the argument (and therefore brings you way more joy than it would me, even if it gives some). This is, of course, exactly what I knew you would do, because you still don’t understand a single ****ing sentence of what I’ve been saying.
You don’t understand any of the 3 fundamental pillars of MMO design, and you don’t understand why Blizzard shouldn’t take one side or the other here. When they removed flying in WoD, they reasoned it extremely well using all 3 design pillars.
And then they ruined it again by introducing the Garrison, which literally undoes everything again. It was an embarrassingly ridiculous move, honestly. It almost felt as if they set it up to be a failure on purpose.
And it’s the same thing with the current system. They go into an expansion knowing exactly why flying is bad, and then they undo it again for absolutely no reason whatsoever, and makes being grounded feel absolutely terrible instead of letting it be exciting.
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I understand it perfectly well. I just don’t happen to agree with it.
Yawn
I personally don’t find it exciting to be grounded after two or three months of playing the same content. shrug
Inherent in that 
statement is that you like Flying.
No please don’t digress, you’re so close to figuring out the real problem.
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